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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 02-10-2020
The image is confusing, it uses the imagery one would use for the poles, and labels them as poles (Pollus de norte? Otro polo?). But then it makes the band of the Zodiac touch them, as if it runs between the poles.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Ruby Novacna - 02-10-2020
(28-09-2020, 10:16 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is the 'Tratado de Astrologia'Antonio, have you managed to read this manuscript, to be able to compare the writings related to the images, like on f45, for example? It could give a boost to voynich reading.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 03-10-2020
That's why I interpreted them as poles. Because they are labeled as poles. Knowledge of astronomy was pretty hit-and-miss at the time. The sun was considered to be the third "planet" orbiting the Earth after Mercury and Venus.
Constellations were badly drawn, as well. Some of the stars (a few of them) are placed in the main positions that make up a constellation, others are wildly incorrect.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Voynichgibberish - 03-10-2020
(23-05-2018, 07:05 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello everyone,
I think there is not a language in the Voynich. No letters, no alphabet, nothing phonetic. It is only a visual code, an astronomical-astrological code which indicate the location of the stars in the celestial sphere. Each star of the Zodiac provide its virtue to an herb, therefore was very important identify well the stars
I like this idea Antonio and I do think the text on its own as my handle indicates it is gibberish which also has structure. Why would someone present so my much script and would that be needed if this was just visual? Why bother presenting your material in this fashion? Why not just present the material with images only?
In my opinion if the script were put down on its own with out images that would make it harder to decode, as even to this day it has not been decoded. The key point is the VMS it does have structure meaning it retains meaning through a Zipf distribution and I have looked at some label comparisons to what I assume might be adjacent adjectives, but I cannot yet validate my data yet. My gibberish idea where it would compare to Latin is only for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. through Zipf. I'm still trying to analyze the text to verify if it is gibberish.
What are you thoughts on labels? There is no meaning there whatsoever? Only imagery! I'm going to presume that for instance otol translates to aera meaning air in English yet otol there is no way to decode it normally but maybe through a Zipf distribution.
Aera could fit for the empty pipe, plant and the heavens but not the name of a star.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 03-10-2020
Thank you Voynichgibberish. As you know, otol is a label for a star, plant and a empty pipe. For me it's just a position in space, spatial coordinates that use astronomical symbols. It can be applied to anything because all Voynich is about the same.
As I know that admitting this is difficult, I want to go back to the imagery, something that is easier to agree on.
As I have said, the Tratado de Astrologia is the best parallel, the contemporary work that best matches the VM.
The scaly shapes that fill the corners of the almost 20 illustrated pages in the book represent the sphere of the stars, the ceiling of the cosmos. These scaly shapes are a symbolic or metaphorical decorative motif that we also see in the VM. As this is not worth discussing, it is best that you read the following threads:
Dotted scallop pattern-roof tiles and Divine cloud- tent, both threads started by Koen
Under de big tent, thread started by Marco
Those umbrella, pinecone things, started by VViews
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 03-10-2020
(03-10-2020, 03:42 AM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I like this idea Antonio and I do think the text on its own as my handle indicates it is gibberish which also has structure. ...
I'm not disagreeing with the general idea that the VMS may have a non-linguistic symbology. This is possible. I've considered it possible almost from the beginning. It's Antonio's specific interpretation that I think needs more evidence.
Ideas are important. Ideas can sometimes lead to solutions. But proving an idea is still paramount. Without proof, it's simply an idea, one that might have been considered by many people but which is an empty vessel until you fill it with evidence.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Ruby Novacna - 03-10-2020
(03-10-2020, 07:35 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... otol is a label for a star, plant and a empty pipe ...If, at first glance, the three objects seem far enough apart to have the same name, we should not immediately assume that this is impossible.
Of course, the word can mean a coordinate, a number, but not only that.
I had already proposed to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as obol / oba, a form of ωFον, ωβεον, ωον Greek or ovum Latin– the egg.
The word "egg" is also present in the names of stars: for example Babylonian fishes pushing a giant egg or Eridanus ostrich eggs in Arabic.
For plants too, we could certainly find a name containing the word "egg".
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 03-10-2020
(03-10-2020, 01:19 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Knowledge of astronomy was pretty hit-and-miss at the time. The sun was considered to be the third "planet" orbiting the Earth after Mercury and Venus.
Right, though I guess there are two kinds of hit-and-miss. One is the knowledge we find incorrect now, but was correct in the medieval tradition. To include Sun and Moon in their respective places among the planets would have been the most informed decision at the time. A scribe or artist who did this had either copied his model correctly or knew his sources well.
But there is also hit-and-miss of the kind we see here. It was known that the ecliptic did not run from pole to pole like some meridian dividing the celestial sphere in half. So something went wrong here interpreting the text or copying the model
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 03-10-2020
I have a zodiac series in my collection that doesn't have Taurus (Gemini is in its place) and has a second set of butting rams (Aries) in the position where you would expect Libra.
I think I have two others that are out of sequence like this. Even though the zodiac series was well documented and relatively common (and easier to understand than other concepts of astrology or astronomy), they sometimes still got them wrong.
RE: No text, but a visual code - aStobbart - 03-10-2020
(02-10-2020, 07:45 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-09-2020, 10:16 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is the 'Tratado de Astrologia'Antonio, have you managed to read this manuscript, to be able to compare the writings related to the images, like on f45, for example? It could give a boost to voynich reading.
As a native spanish speaker I decided to give it a try and it took some effort, but some keywords are climas (the earth has seven "climates", according to the author), horas, grados, minutos, linea equinocial, oriente.
Here is my attempt at transcription (in modern spanish) of the first section of f10v (32)
Quote:El primer clima comienza desde la linea equinocial en vii grados de largo - (meatat?) de un grado - aqui es la (abdat de arim?) donde siempre los dias y noches son iguales - esto es en la (meatat?) de este clima pero a las partes de la linea equinocial son tres grados - veintisiete minutos - el (eclip?) de la una parte hace su dia mayor en trece horas - el menor en once horas - comienza de la parte de oriente hasta donde sale el...
In parethesis are the words I that I am not really sure how to read. The character that looks like a "z" (-) I read it as modern spanish "y" (and), or it just acts as a separator, I am not sure. Some words look abbreviated too.