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+--- Thread: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS (/thread-1745.html)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 11-12-2020
It is conceivable that Michael Maier's "Atalanta Fugiens" respectively one of the emblems and a part of folio f86v3 in the VMS are based on a common template. After all, there are two birds on the folio in the VMS too ( though only one in the nest).
Atalanta Fugiens, Michael Maier, 1618, Emblem / Epigram 7th
Description: A young chick attempts to fly out of its own nest and falls into it again.
A German interpretation of the epigram, published by Georg Heinrich Oehrling (1708), can be read below the original Latin text. The explanation of the scene, also in German, can be found here:
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A discussion of the topic can be found here (Discourse 7th in english):
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Searcher - 12-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 10:08 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is conceivable that Michael Maier's "Atalanta Fugiens" respectively one of the emblems and a part of folio f86v3 in the VMS are based on a common template. After all, there are two birds on the folio in the VMS too ( though only one in the nest).Some time ago I made a few comparisons to Maier's and Milius's emblems. They really have a surprising resemblance to some of the VMs images. In fact, they are considered not actual because of their late date, therefore I searched for an earlier example. We discussed it at the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. But saying about the 17th century examples, my favourite one is the emblem from The Philosophia reformata of J. D. Mylius. 1622 - the two rocks, the birds in a nest, the Earth between the rocks (T/O map implies the Earth, as well).
Atalanta Fugiens, Michael Maier, 1618, Emblem / Epigram 7th
...
![[Image: 78b48e9fa746ef0c3c445b8b90a3724c.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/78/b4/8e/78b48e9fa746ef0c3c445b8b90a3724c.jpg)
P. S.But it was of course a few years later after Maier's emblem, the same as the image from the Clavis Artis:
![[Image: 15106459083_0718378671_o.jpg]](https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7521/15106459083_0718378671_o.jpg)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 12-12-2020
(12-12-2020, 12:47 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In fact, they are considered not actual because of their late date, therefore I searched for an earlier example.You are right, the tradition of the numerous works of the 17th century is difficult to trace. It seems that there is a gap to the earlier alchemical works (in Europe). It is not possible to explain it with the invention of the printing press, because this was of course much earlier.
I personally believe that there is a tradition, because nothing is created in "a vacuum".
The idea that the VMS on some folios or sections takes up alchemical themes that appear again in much later works I therefore consider quite acceptable. So there would have to be common templates.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Searcher - 12-12-2020
(12-12-2020, 03:32 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....the tradition of the numerous works of the 17th century is difficult to trace. It seems that there is a gap to the earlier alchemical works (in Europe). It is not possible to explain it with the invention of the printing press, because this was of course much earlier.I still keep trying to find closest examples in earlier alchemical works. It's really a problem that many potentially XV c. original works are lost and only found later, often in printed versions, in the XVI or XVII c., therefore they are often considered to be written by later authors under the names of older famous and mysterious alchemists . It concerns Ripley's, Basil Valentine's and a few others works, in which I'm really interested. I always was interested why not earlier, XII, XIII c. alchemists, but XV c. ones. Some mystery here.
I personally believe that there is a tradition, because nothing is created in "a vacuum".
The idea that the VMS on some folios or sections takes up alchemical themes that appear again in much later works I therefore consider quite acceptable. So there would have to be common templates.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 12-12-2020
Basilius Valentinus is to this day an as yet unidentified German-speaking author of alchemical writings. According to recent research, the Basilius corpus was written not long before the end of the 16th century. Today, the majority of researchers assume that the Hessian alchemist Johann Thölde, who published the first Basil writings from Frankenhausen and Leipzig between 1599 and 1604, was its real author or at least compiler. However, this view is contradicted by various researchers.
For me Basilius Valentinus stands exemplary for other authors who only find a wide publication in later prints and by foreign hand.
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Searcher - 12-12-2020
I find interesting that at least two alchemical printed books conatain a big folded folio (not sure how to name this correctly), but both of them are of the XVII c.:
1. Johann Daniel Mylius. Tractatus III. Seu basilia philosophica. 1618. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
2. Elias Ashmole. Theatrum chemicum britannicum. Ripley's Wheel.1652. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The images are fromYou are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The latter image is interesting as it also contains a scheme, which has some resemblance with the Rosettes page. I remember someone mentioned this page in some thread, but I couldn't find it either for "Theatrum Chemicum" or for "Ripley's Wheel". Possibly, it was not on here.
How often such big folded folios were inserted into books? Of course, besides of usual maps. How long has this tradition been established?
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - -JKP- - 13-12-2020
Searcher, I don't know the answer to your question, but I have tried to keep my eyes open for foldouts and "rolls" when I am looking through eManuscripts.
They seem to show up most often on prayer/talismanic rolls, Ripley-style rolls, obituary rolls, heraldic rolls, sometimes on religious contemplation rolls (they are almost like a medieval version of a poster), maps, and the portable handbooks of physicians. But... I don't see them frequently.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Searcher - 13-12-2020
(13-12-2020, 01:16 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Searcher, I don't know the answer to your question, but I have tried to keep my eyes open for foldouts and "rolls" when I am looking through eManuscripts.Thanks, JKP! Maybe, we can even devote a thread to this topic.
They seem to show up most often on prayer/talismanic rolls, Ripley-style rolls, obituary rolls, heraldic rolls, sometimes on religious contemplation rolls (they are almost like a medieval version of a poster), maps, and the portable handbooks of physicians. But... I don't see them frequently.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 19-12-2020
Since alchemical works from this period are rather rare, I would like to present this codex of the National Library of the Czech Republic.
It can be assumed that Arnaldus de Villanova is not the second author of the text, since he rejected alchemy. However, alchemical texts were often attributed to him posthumously.
Národní knihovna České republiky, XXIII.D.132, Textus alchymici, Pseudo-Raymundus Lullus; Arnaldus de Villanova, 1425-1450
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Koen G - 19-12-2020
I think this should score pretty high on the Vonichese-like scripts index
