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Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Printable Version

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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - -JKP- - 04-02-2020

(03-02-2020, 05:56 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Does anyone have any idea what this illustrated tubular object should represent ?
It doesn't look like an alchemical device to me.

[Image: strange01.png]
Beinecke Digital Collections, Mellon MS 16, Johannes de Rupescissa,  De consideratione quinte essentie, anonymously translated into German, p. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , ca. 1475


It might be an attempt to draw this kind of distillation jar, but the person didn't know how to draw transparent arms going back into the bottom bulb:

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Edit [addition]: Here's another example courtesy of the Wellcome site with a short top-neck and it is drawn without an attempt at transparency:

[Image: default.jpg]

It's called a pelican glass and I can see why. The way the "neck" curves down is like the many religious drawings of the pelican piercing its own breast to feed its chicks. They didn't know what a pelican looked like. They never drew it with a fat bill, it was usually drawn more like a regular songbird with a long neck or like a small crane.

RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Aga Tentakulus - 04-02-2020

Hmmm, I have seen some illustrations of distillation plants (though mostly recent date), but this one would make no sense at all in terms of construction. The connection of upper and lower part seems to me quite strange. But maybe it's just an inability to draw.

Sometimes the drawings look funny, and you wonder how something like this is supposed to work.
But when you think about it, a lot of things are logical.
Let's make an elixir from plants.
One: I take plants and start fermentation.
Water, sugar, yeast. I let this ferment for a few days.
Only with natural sugar and yeast, it takes forever.
Second distillation.
Water evaporates at 100°, alcohol at 70°.
Now it is important to find the right temperature.
At 80° the water runs back the way at a certain height, the alcohol vapour rises further to the separation point and condenses in another vessel.
Now we have a wonderful schnapps.

Different procedures for oil (rose oil), fructose, minerals.
Everything can be obtained from plants.
Some things seem to happen also in VM.

RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Koen G - 04-02-2020

I did a quick wiki search on the history of distillation and came across a reference to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. 


Quote:Fractional distillation was developed by Taddeo Alderotti in the 13th century. The production method was written in code, suggesting that it was being kept secret.

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I haven't been able to find this code yet, though I expect it will be some kind of simple substitution.

RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 04-02-2020

(04-02-2020, 03:06 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It might be an attempt to draw this kind of distillation jar, but the person didn't know how to draw transparent arms going back into the bottom bulb:
That seems like a reasonable explanation. Otherwise, the "thing" drawn simply cannot be assigned.

Quote:Fractional distillation was developed by Taddeo Alderotti in the 13th century. The production method was written in code, suggesting that it was being kept secret.

Thanks @Koen, this is new to me. I would very much like to see Alderotti`s work "De virtutibus aquae vitae", but there is nothing to be found on the net.

It is only a small step to alchemy:
Quote:After seven such distillations the water is called perfecta and after ten distillations perfectissima. Since this laborious procedure was very expensive, one was usually satisfied with four distillations. In the following period, several practitioners of alchemy used the same method to produce the aqua ignea rectificata (purified firewater) and finally the aqua vitae rectificata (purified water of life), which was used for medicinal purposes only.

Edit: I found it after all (97v-100r, Taddaeus Alderotti, De virtutibus aquae vitae), medical compilation, Vienna, 1463/1464
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and here (77v-79v), Alchemical compilation, around 1400
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - davidjackson - 05-02-2020

(04-02-2020, 10:43 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Fractional distillation was developed by Taddeo Alderotti in the 13th century. The production method was written in code, suggesting that it was being kept secret.
I suspect this is a Wiki-invention. There is no mention of the method being in code in the source quoted by Wikipedia (Holmyard, Eric John (1990). Alchemy. p 53)
The book in question is I Consilia by Taddeo Alderotti. I looked it up and there is no mention of any part of it being in code. A History of Medicine: Medieval medicine (Prioreschi) discusses this in passing, especially with mention of Alderotti's applications of alcohol in medicine (what a waste! Tongue ) and again, no mention of a code or cipher, despite transcribing interesting passages.
I admit I haven't read the book in question.

RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Koen G - 05-02-2020

To be fair, the footnote is with the sentence before the one about code, so let's say it's [citation needed]. But when I googled it I also wasn't able to find anything about Taddeo and code.

RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - nablator - 05-02-2020

(05-02-2020, 08:18 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The book in question is I Consilia by Taddeo Alderotti.

I would rather expect to find the recipe in De virtutibus aquae vitae, and it is there indeed.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. There are some symbols I am not familiar with on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Another manuscript : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Compare with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The text is a bit different.

RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - davidjackson - 05-02-2020

(05-02-2020, 09:00 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. There are some symbols I am not familiar with on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
That is a 1401 compendium of medical texts, codex München. I don't have time to study it right now, but if similar texts don't have those symbols, it might be something unique to that compiler?

RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 05-02-2020

(05-02-2020, 08:18 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The book in question is I Consilia by Taddeo Alderotti.

I found the "Consilia" online here. At first sight there is nothing remarkable about the text.
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Edit:
Only the notes from folio 120r onwards are indecipherable for me. But that could just be due to my incapacity.

[Image: marks.png]

Since the Consilia is about medical case studies, I would rather assume, like @nablator, that De virtutibus aquae vitae would be a better candidate for encryption.

RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 06-02-2020

This comparison with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the VMS just came to my mind. As mentioned elsewhere, I consider Quire 13 "alchemy-suspicious" anyway.

[Image: comp_tube.png]

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