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+--- Thread: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS (/thread-1745.html)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - davidjackson - 01-07-2021
(30-06-2021, 07:31 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What is clear is that one will search in vain for "classical" alchemical symbolism in the VMS.I've said it before and I'll say it again: most of the "classical" alchemical symbols that we know of post-date the VM, they're Renaissance.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 01-07-2021
It is at least possible that alchemical processes are represented symbolically ( see post 140 ). This does not correspond to later developed traditions, but can also help with correct interpretation to understand the underlying processes. This is also the case if the illustrations have more than one level of meaning and one must first penetrate to the basic statement. This problem is also found in the "classical" alchemical symbolism.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Koen G - 01-07-2021
I think if alchemy is involved, it must be considered as
1) part of a lager medical/scientific compendium
2) a specifically medieval type of alchemy (my impression is that not all proponents of alchemy-VM theories care much about the chronology)
3) somewhat "deformed" like everything in the VM seems
The first point is not too important, probably time will tell which parts of the VM relate to alchemy. And it's very good that you are now looking at one of the most important figures regarding medieval alchemy (I knew nothing about this subject before Barbara Curtis mentioned it).
What are you thinking about the third point though? Why do some of these images feel "alchemical" - a point I certainly agree with - while at the same time apparently twisting the subject matter? And if it is an allegory, then what of?
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 01-07-2021
To your third point:
I would not necessarily say that the representations are "deformed", but that they are overloaded with an "ideological superstructure". Highly recommended here is the book by DeVun, "Prophecy, Alchemy, and the End of Time", ( Especially the chapter "Metaphor and Alchemy ").
Let us assume that on the factual level it is really about the multiple distillation of alcohol from wine, this process would never be written down in a purely technical way in the Middle Ages, but would always be presented as part of a larger concept. There it is then about Christ, the sun, the planets the stars and the (human) heaven etc. . Especially Rupescissa, who was not only an alchemist but also a Franciscan and an apocalyptic visionary, had a world view that is quite crude for today's rational man.
The authors of the VMS obviously wanted to illustrate the text extensively. The illustrations are thus the "framework" that gives the "reader" possibilities for interpretation. Here the authors could make statements on more than one level of meaning and really "let off steam". So the naked nymphs possibly accompany the distillation process (as heavenly beings?), but can have another meaning independently and superimposed. This ambiguity makes in the end an assignment so difficult. But if one reduces the representation of the nymphs to only one level, then this can block one's view.
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 03-07-2021
Here is an example of ambiguity in the description of alchemical processes ( Christ`s death and resurrection ):
DeVun, L. Prophecy, Alchemy, and the End of Time, Columbia University Press, 2009, p. 114
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 03-07-2021
The nymph on the right on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. looks to me like she is dead or resurrected.
edit: In another context, this image detail is discussed You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Aga Tentakulus - 03-07-2021
From a pharmaceutical point of view, I would say:
When wine dies, vinegar is born.
Sometimes you just have to let something rest and the rest happens by itself.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 04-07-2021
(03-07-2021, 04:14 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When wine dies, vinegar is born.Vinegar maker was an independent profession in the late Middle Ages. French vinegar makers in particular were well known. They were first registered in Paris in 1394.
If multiple distillation of wine to quintessence (high-proof alcohol) was the goal, then wine was probably distilled directly. If vinegar was wanted, then the wine was further fermented in open containers (so-called "surface fermentation"). In this process, special bacteria formed, the so-called "Mother of vinegar".
However, I know very little about the production of high-proof alcohol, maybe you know more about it.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Aga Tentakulus - 04-07-2021
"Mother of vinegar"
When vinegar stands and stores for a long time, a kind of slime forms. This is the bacterial culture or the mother.
A little of this slime in juice and off you go.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 05-07-2021
Quote:FERMENTATION is the fifth operation in the alchemy of transformation.
Fermentation is a two-stepped process that begins with the Putrefaction of the hermaphroditic "child" from the Conjunction resulting in its death and resurrection to a new level of being. The Fermentation phase then begins with the introduction of new life into the product of Conjunction to strengthen it and insure its survival.
Chemically, Fermentation is the growth of a ferment (bacteria) in organic solutions, such as occurs in the fermenting of milk to produce curds and cheese or in the fermenting of grapes to make wine.
It is conceivable that the image in post 146 represents a fermentation of grapes into wine. It would also fit that the following step in the alchemical process would be the distillation.
I don't mean to imply that all seven steps are rigorously "worked through" here ( the number of stages is also given differently in the literature, the later the works the higher the number of stages). Of course, it would be nice to find step by step in the VMS, but the manuscript will not make it that "easy".