+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html)
+--- Thread: Getting close to a source for f85r2 (/thread-4453.html)
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - Koen G - 12-01-2025
Wouldn't the rosettes image be the reason for the foldout?
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - oshfdk - 12-01-2025
(11-01-2025, 08:14 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You say the person with cane and rosary was a common scene - I'd be very interested in more examples, do you recall any? Or do you mean a common scene in real life?
I mean in real life, it's possible that a rosary and cane just worked very well to signify a certain type of person.
(11-01-2025, 08:14 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Medieval drawings are usually based on stock figures, with or without mistakes and alterations.
I'm not sure "usually" works well with the Voynich manuscript. But in any case, you have found a very interesting parallel. Maybe it's possible to find an even more convincing copy.
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - Dobri - 12-01-2025
Perhaps there are no cane and rosary attributes but rather a support and a baby for a woman giving a standing childbirth.
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - Linda - 12-01-2025
Some randomish thoughts on the female figure.
I don't see rosaries, I see garlands.
I have thought before that she exhibits age on one side with the stick, youth on the other side with the floral garlands.
I just looked up synonyms for garland: chaplet, coronal, lei, wreath. Interestingly enough, the first got me immediately back to rosary (but different, has less beads, different prayers). Seems like more than coincidence that the two are conflated, although that doesn't necessarily confer youth or age, but it does add to the ambiguity.
But if there is both youth and age, it could be hecate/demeter/kore, although again I don't know what that would mean in the context of the page, seasons, agriculture, while the others display other aspects of the world, perhaps? A link to the 3 fates with their threads?
Beyond their aesthetic appeal, garlands have long held symbolic significance. In various cultures, these festive loops represent unity, continuity, and the cyclical nature of life.
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - Bluetoes101 - 12-01-2025
(12-01-2025, 12:22 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wouldn't the rosettes image be the reason for the foldout?
Good point, I hadn't noticed.
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - Dobri - 12-01-2025
(12-01-2025, 02:33 PM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps there are no cane and rosary attributes but rather a support and a baby for a woman giving a standing childbirth.Let me clarify that the support is the rectangular block the female figure is bending over (notice the 90 degree angle where the female body touches the rectangular block).
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - Dobri - 12-01-2025
An alternative interpretation is that the woman is holding a pretzel (recognizable by its distinctive knot shape) where the three holes in the pretzel represent the Holy Trinity.
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - Aga Tentakulus - 12-01-2025
I read that somewhere too. Article about symbols and coveting.
Just like the oath fingers, thumb, index and middle finger.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - Dobri - 13-01-2025
Another alternative interpretation is that the woman leaning over the rectangular block is imposing self-flagellation on herself with some kind of a discipline scourge (whip).
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2 - oshfdk - 13-01-2025
Edit: I think we better disregard this. This is likely an artifact of the post-processing of this particular model pipeline, as suggested by @nablator. I cannot reproduce this line by manual color correction. Probably it makes sense to hold these images and postpone adding another set to the site. The images already uploaded to oshfdkbw.pages.dev should not have this problem, they only use global correction and a strictly local model.
For what it's worth, another model trained on ink (the results of which I've been planning to add to my site for a while...) shows some ink line on the forehead of "the doctor", suggestive of some headgear.