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+--- Thread: f17r multispectral images (/thread-4364.html)
RE: f17r multispectral images - magnesium - 18-07-2025
I found "allor" (the second word of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia) as the second word of line 20 of the 7th page of this 15th-century German-Latin manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
See also the third line of the 8th page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I don't know enough Latin or German to translate fully, but I think this may be relevant.
RE: f17r multispectral images - ReneZ - 18-07-2025
Looks like 'aller' (German: all, of all) to me.
In this text word-final 'n' looks a bit like 'y', very much like on the last line of Voynich MS f116v, just before 'so nim geiss mich o'.
RE: f17r multispectral images - magnesium - 18-07-2025
(18-07-2025, 03:46 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Looks like 'aller' (German: all, of all) to me.
In this text word-final 'n' looks a bit like 'y', very much like on the last line of Voynich MS f116v, just before 'so nim geiss mich o'.
Ah good call, thank you for steering me straight.
RE: f17r multispectral images - Aga Tentakulus - 18-07-2025
He writes: "O du aller süssest Kind"
O sweetest child
RE: f17r multispectral images - Koen G - 18-07-2025
Literally "o you sweetest child of all", using the genitive "aller".
Seeing the way "k" is written, I'm afraid a reading of kuc3 is inevitable for the word after aller.
If we read it as Germanic "aller kuc3", then at least we know that kuc3 is a plural. In which case I can only think of "Kuchen". Time for breakfast
RE: f17r multispectral images - Aga Tentakulus - 18-07-2025
According to modern grammar, ‘aller süssesst’ should be written as one word.
“allerliebst” ‘allerwertester’
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RE: f17r multispectral images - Skoove - 29-12-2025
(18-07-2025, 08:37 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Seeing the way "k" is written, I'm afraid a reading of kuc3 is inevitable for the word after aller.
If we read it as Germanic "aller kuc3", then at least we know that kuc3 is a plural. In which case I can only think of "Kuchen". Time for breakfast
I've been thinking about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a lot recently and I am starting to agree with 'k' rather than 'l'.
That said, I could also see the yogh being a z making it 'kuczen' rather than 'kuchen'. I believe that in this passage (from Cod. Pal. germ. 313, circa 1478) 'kuczen' is being used to describe a type of owl (kauz) (as it says 'die ulen unnd die kuczen'). This example doesn't use the overbar and the handwriting isn't similar though. Not really sure how this fits with the rest of the marginalia but just a thought.
Quote:brech er, so wolt all wirdikeit von dir husen,
die ulen unnd die kuczen
die wordenn in den schirweln mit dir musen.
RE: f17r multispectral images - PeteClifford - 01-01-2026
Returning to the question of the one or two words of Voynichese text in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia, I wondered if we could achieve anything approaching a consensus over how they should be read?
I see something like <oteeeol aim>
However, <oteeeol> is not attested in the manuscript, while <aim> is found, but only 7 times (according to voynichese.com).
If we could bend the text to be <oteeeos aiin>, which doesn't seem too much of a stretch to me given how hard this is to make out, even with MSI, then the first of those "vords" appears just once, while the second is common (470 occurrences according to voynichese.com - I count 504 using the ZL transcription), and I thought it was worth mentioning that this exact "phrase" (word sequence) <oteeeos aiin> occurs on f105r. To put it another way, the only time <oteeeos> is found in the VMS, it is followed by <aiin>.
Anybody else more experienced than me like to offer a reading? If I've missed this in the preceding pages of this thread, my apologies. I note that the ZL transcription seems to include this text, where others do not, and has:
<f17r.13,@Lx> oteeeon.oiil
Both of those vords would be unique in the VMS. I'm not sure if this reading was based on the MSI or not.
RE: f17r multispectral images - Jorge_Stolfi - 01-01-2026
(01-01-2026, 03:21 PM)PeteClifford Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see something like <oteeeol aim> However, <oteeeol> is not attested in the manuscript
A Ch can easily become ee, because the ligature is usually the faintest part, and those words have been heavily effaced by wear and/or spill. I find an otCheeol on <f104v.41>.
All the best, --stolfi
RE: f17r multispectral images - Bluetoes101 - 01-01-2026
(01-01-2026, 03:21 PM)PeteClifford Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see something like <oteeeol aim>
That's what I see too. The VMS text has a lot of unique words that differ from more common ones only slightly, there are a number of oteeol for example.