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RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - Stephen Carlson - 29-06-2022
(24-05-2022, 10:54 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If in our manuscript at least part of the text is written in ancient Greek, as I expect, we should be able to distinguish the present participle from the declined noun.In this case, the noun and participle have different accents: πόλων (genitive plural of the noun πόλος) vs. πολῶν (pres. act. part. of πολέω).
For example, is the word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which I believe transcribes the word πολων, the participle of the verb πολεω or the declined noun πολος?
If you have some knowledge of ancient Greek, what do you think?
Doesn't always happen (especially with feminine nouns), however, but usually the syntactic context will tell them apart, e.g, they'll take different articles: τῶν πόλων vs. ὁ πολῶν.
PS. I'd love it if it were ancient Greek, but there's nothing resembling Greek syntax in it, like Wackernagel particles, etc.
RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - Ruby Novacna - 29-06-2022
(29-06-2022, 09:02 AM)Stephen Carlson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.τῶν πόλων vs. ὁ πολῶνThank you very much, Stephen!
If I understand correctly, in the absence of accents in the text, we had better watch out for the possible presence of the articles τῶν (daiin) and ὁ (o?).
(29-06-2022, 09:02 AM)Stephen Carlson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....there's nothing resembling Greek syntax in it, like Wackernagel particles, etc.I don't know any of this, but I'm still optimistic: a few months ago I didn't know how to distinguish a present infinitive.
RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - Ruby Novacna - 29-06-2022
(29-06-2022, 09:02 AM)Stephen Carlson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.there's nothing resembling Greek syntax in it, like Wackernagel particles, etc.Well, I had a look, it's just location of particles like gar (8ar), de (qo) and men (?).
I don't see what's discouraging you.
I'll keep reading, I hope it will help me.
RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - Stephen Carlson - 30-06-2022
In my experience, the less one knows a language, the more attractive it becomes for a solution to the Voynich text.
RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - Ruby Novacna - 01-07-2022
(30-06-2022, 11:50 AM)Stephen Carlson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In my experience, the less one knows a language, the more attractive it becomes for a solution to the Voynich text.Stephen, if I understand correctly:
the more one knows about a language, the less attractive it becomes for a solution to the Voynich text.
But this is a universal truth:
"But who is wurs shod, than the shoemakers wyfe,
With shops full of newe shapen shoes all hir lyfe?"
RE: Can the ending -ain refer to the infinitive of verbs? - Ruby Novacna - 16-09-2022
On the list of Greek endings there is also the ending -αιν with some examples:
- Genitive and dative dual of first-declension nouns: ῐ̓δέᾱ, ῐ̓δέαιν.
- Feminine genitive and dative dual of all adjectives with first-declension feminines: ᾰ̓γᾰθός, ᾰ̓γᾰθαῖν; βᾰρῠ́, βᾰρείαιν.
It is therefore in our interest to check regularly whether the voynechese word ending in -ain is a verb with the ending -ειν or rather a noun or adjective with the ending -αιν.
RE: Can the ending -ain refer to the infinitive of verbs? - cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 16-09-2022
Ruby, In Slovenian language, aiv is definitelly the grammatical ending for adjectives and verbs. Regardless of how you transcribe ain (an, ain, aiv, aw) - these are all grammatical endings in Slovenian. The ending -aiv is most characteristic for the adjective, such as in the word LEKAIV (healing - constructed from LEK/medicine and -iv), but in the VM, where W is used for phonetic U or V, it can also be the ending for noun - DAN (EVA-dain) could be translated into Slovenian as DAN - nominative case for 'a day'. Or it can be translated as DAN - passive masculine of 'give' (given). If transliterated as DAIV, it can be pronounced as DAJIV - he was repeatedly giving, and DAW, pronounced as DAU means 'he gave'.
RE: Can the ending -ain refer to the infinitive of verbs? - Ruby Novacna - 17-09-2022
(16-09-2022, 02:46 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.but in the VM, where W is used for phonetic U or VThanks, Cvetka, but you don't specify, which glyph does the w correspond to in EVA, for example?
(16-09-2022, 02:46 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The ending -aiv is most characteristic for the adjective, such as in the word LEKAIV (healingIs it -ain or -aiv?
Can you also specify on which page you found the word lekaiv?
RE: Can the ending -ain refer to the infinitive of verbs? - Ruby Novacna - 29-09-2022
Some time ago I had suggested reading the word ydain as 98ain for the Greek word ηθειν, the infinitive of ηθεω -to sift, to filter. But by reading 8 as δ, the word ydain becomes You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., 1st and 3rd person past perfect of *ειδω - I (he) knew.
Finally, even reading the voynechese ending -ain as -ειν, we cannot automatically conclude that it's the infinitive.
RE: Can the ending -ain refer to the infinitive of verbs? - Ruby Novacna - 25-10-2022
Looking at the word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I realised that this is another case where the -ain ending is not that of an infinitive.