+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. (/thread-5148.html)
RE: Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. - Koen G - 17-03-2026
Jojo: check this page, number 4 explains everything: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Machine translation to English:
Quote:Particular attention is earned by sam in protestations [oaths], always in the combination sam mir gott ("so help me God") and the like, with the verb omitted. Sam mir are frequently written as one word and subsequently distorted in manifold ways.
Lexer (Mittelhochdeutsches Handwörterbuch 2, 591) cites: sammir, samir, samer; sammer, somer, sommer, summer, zummer; semmir, semir; even selmir, slemmir. (See Grimm, Rechtsalterthümer 895).
So basically, it's "so help me God", but in the German word order "so me God help". This was used so often and so recognizably, that the verb could be omitted. The omission of the verb can probably also be seen in the same way that Gott becomes potz or pox. They still want to use the phrase for effect, but at the same time lessen it a bit.
The page also mentions "samer potz huͦr" as an example of "häufig völlig sinnlose entstellungen".
RE: Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. - JoJo_Jost - 17-03-2026
I take back what I said; Koen is right, that’s nonsense.
RE: Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. - Koen G - 17-03-2026
That's not "one way of looking at it", that's literally the explanation provided by scholars of etymology. The phrase "so mir Gott hilfe" was used so often that it almost lost its meaning and people started saying "sammer gott" or even "sammer pox". It's similar as how "goodbye" is a contraction of "God be with ye".
(For clarity, the "sammer" part in "sammer pox" is not of direct relevance in any interpretation of the marginalia).
RE: Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. - Bernd - 17-03-2026
Yes, it's a minced oath, often minced beyond readability
RE: Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. - Aga Tentakulus - 17-03-2026
“hür” stands for “today”
Example (blue):
“We don't need you today.”
"hür" steht für "heute"
Beispiel blau:
"Heute kann man Dich nicht brauchen."
"fern" hier = später
RE: Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. - JoJo_Jost - 17-03-2026
@ Koen okay, i'm convinced...
RE: Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. - Battler - 17-03-2026
(17-03-2026, 12:04 AM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not sure if it is of any use whatsoever, but I remembered "Samer pox/box/botz" was common in the examples I found previously.
I have no idea what any of these mean.. (translation tools do not have a scooby doo) so hopefully I'm not posting anything offensive...
"kein wunder wers, sammer botz lung,
das mir vor leid mein herz zersprung."
"samer pox haut!"
"samer pox leichnam!"
"samer pox trost!"
I wonder if this is a German borrowing from some Slavic language, because in Slovenian, we often say "Sam Bog verb in infinitive", eg. "Sam Bog jim pomagej" - "[May] God himself help them". Bog means God. I can see "Sam Bog" turning into "samer pox" in German, with the help of some folk etymology which people like doing on phrases they don't quite understand.