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+--- Thread: [split] Volvelles or Disks (/thread-5366.html)
RE: [split] Volvelles or Disks - AliciaNelPresente - 16-02-2026
Hi Rafal,
I appreciate you clarifying your position. First, a small correction: That link is not mine. I believe Mr. Rob shared it earlier?? I honestly hadn't seen that specific site blog before yesterday.
To answer your specific questions directly:
1. Does your imagined system also work this way or is it more automated?
No, it is not "automated" in the sense of a clockwork robot writing by itself.
This is the exact point where our hypothesis diverges from the one in the link. In the model Rob linked, the wheels are passive. The human looks at the wheel and decides: "I will pick 'o', then 'l', then nothing."
The system we propose is Deterministic but Human-Operated. The scribe is not choosing glyphs at random, he is aligning the rings to encode a specific state or instruction.
If the Voynich words follow the pattern Prefix + Root + Suffix, you just have to align the three rings to repeat that pattern. Think of it like a slot machine with three wheels. You cannot put the third wheel first. The structure is physically locked. Let's try with ''qokedy''
Prefix qo- + Root -ke- + Suffix dy
The Workflow: 1. The operator/author/scribe/(whatever) sees an event > 2. He uses The Volvelle. He aligns the 1st Ring to the Root Ring to the 3rd Ring > 3. He writes down the resulting string: qokedy
---
So, to answer your point: A human makes the decision of WHAT to encode (the intent), but the Volvella dictates HOW it is written (the spelling).
RE: The oddities of the bigram "ed" pt. 2: Same as it ever was. - AliciaNelPresente - 17-02-2026
Below, I am not stating anything as fact, it is simply my opinion based on my reading of the data presented by Mr. Dulsen from my perspective and point of view.
Hi @Dunsel You haven't just plotted data, you have visualized the Volvella's behavior.
To answer your "Big Question" immediately:
"Why does a lexical 'engine' make a drastic switch like 'ed' if the vocabulary isn’t actually changing much?"
The answer that fits your data perfectly is structural:
Because the "Engine" (The Core) remained the same. Only the "Rim" (The Outer Ring) was swapped. Let me use your numbers to prove why this must be a mechanical state change rather than a linguistic one.
1. The "Switch" vs. The "Drift"
Your cumulative chart ''Cumulative ED Count: 0ED vs ED+'' shows a flatline followed by a vertical ascent. As you rightly questioned regarding natural language: "If there’s a natural-language example where a very high-frequency digraph shows this kind of behavior, I’d genuinely be interested to see it."
There isn't one! Even your control test with Culpeper's "rk" showed a much softer distribution (76% coverage).
The ed bigram is not a word part, it is a Hardware Component (likely a specific suffix abbreviation on the Outer Ring) that was physically absent in the 0ED configuration and installed in the ED+ configuration.
2. "Repairability" = Mechanical Adjacency
This is your most crushing piece of evidence:
"Latin (Caesar) ... Within ≤2: 69.31%"
"English (Dracula) ... Within ≤2: 66.47%"
"Voynich ... Within ≤2: ~93.7%"
You asked why the vocabulary is so repairable. It is because you aren't measuring linguistic typos, you are measuring Gear Teeth. In a mechanical Volvelle, "Word A" and "Word B" are often just one click apart on the dial.
Click 1: Produces chol
Click 2 (Next tooth): Produces chor
Click 3: Produces shor
The "1 Edit Distance" you found in 82% of cases is simply the Physical Adjacency of the glyphs on the rotor. The Volvella doesn't "invent" new words, it just rotates to the neighbor. That is why 93.7% of the text is so similar, it is generated by a closed loop of neighboring states.
3. The "Engine" Didn't Change
You noted:
"This is a very smooth growth rate. This suggests that there was no big shift between 0ED and ED+. ... it's still the same base 'engine' chugging along"
Precisely. The Core Rotors (Roots/Prefixes) were never changed. That is why the "high-frequency backbone" (daiin, ol, chol) is 100% shared. The only thing that changed was the Output Filter (The Suffix Ring/Modality), which determines whether the machine appends an ed (abbreviation for -dum???) or leaves it blank.
Currier A and Currier B are not dialects. They are Setup A (Ring 1 + Ring 2 + Ring 3A) and Setup B (Ring 1 + Ring 2 + Ring 3B). You have mathematically proven the existence of Volvella's "Settings Dial".
Alicia
RE: The oddities of the bigram "ed" pt. 2: Same as it ever was. - DG97EEB - 17-02-2026
(17-02-2026, 09:36 AM)AliciaNelPresente Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Alicia
Thanks Claude..
"This is your most crushing piece of evidence:"
"You have mathematically proven the existence of Volvella's Settings Dial"
Personally I'm fine for you to use an LLM. I actually don't care if it helps you express your ideas and write in a second language, but at least be upfront with it and then people can engage with your ideas, not the uncanny valley of LLM writing.
I have no issue with your ideas. I happen to think they won't work, but the burden of proof remains with you to show that they do. I wish you good luck.
RE: [split] Volvelles or Disks - Koen G - 17-02-2026
Alicia, please state when you are feeding us LLM output. This behavior is not appreciated. Also, please keep your theory to its own thread.
RE: [split] Volvelles or Disks - AliciaNelPresente - 17-02-2026
(17-02-2026, 10:29 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Alicia, please state when you are feeding us LLM output. This behavior is not appreciated. Also, please keep your theory to its own thread.
Hi Mr Koen G,
Okay!
I've already said what I think and what I wanted to show, I don't think I'll bother (much) again haha!
RE: [split] Volvelles or Disks - julian - 24-02-2026
(17-02-2026, 10:29 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Alicia, please state when you are feeding us LLM output. This behavior is not appreciated. Also, please keep your theory to its own thread.
Hi Koen, I was reading through this thread and much enjoying it, but it seems to have ended a bit abruptly following your post (quoted) which confused me for two reasons: 1) why the admonishment about LLM, since I had seen no obvious LLM output, and b) is this thread not dedicated to Alicia's theory? Perhaps the thread being "split" affects this? Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick!
Thanks,
Julian
RE: [split] Volvelles or Disks - Koen G - 24-02-2026
Hi Julian, I get why this looks confusing: I moved the posts from different threads into this one, so you are looking at my restoration efforts :)
About LLM usage, I had received complaints from several people that this user was doing little more than feeding our posts into some chatbot and copy-pasting the output. This is unfortunately a practice we've become all too familiar with.
RE: [split] Volvelles or Disks - AliciaNelPresente - 24-02-2026
(24-02-2026, 05:17 AM)julian Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(17-02-2026, 10:29 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Alicia, please state when you are feeding us LLM output. This behavior is not appreciated. Also, please keep your theory to its own thread.
Hi Koen, I was reading through this thread and much enjoying it, but it seems to have ended a bit abruptly following your post (quoted) which confused me for two reasons: 1) why the admonishment about LLM, since I had seen no obvious LLM output, and b) is this thread not dedicated to Alicia's theory? Perhaps the thread being "split" affects this? Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick!
Thanks,
Julian
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RE: [split] Volvelles or Disks - eggyk - 24-02-2026
(24-02-2026, 05:11 PM)AliciaNelPresente Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Apologies if i'm misunderstanding, but in that video isn't the person basically picking whichever symbol they wish, for as many symbols as they wish, in any order they wish? What would be the point of the wheel in such a case? If you know which symbol means what, and you may choose which symbols on the wheel to write freely, why not simply write the symbols in the correct order?
For example, in the first "word" the plaintext is claimed to be: Praeparare Calx Hydrata Extractum Dosis Crystallus
So if praeparare is p, Calx Hydrata is ch, Extractum is e, Dosis is d, Crystallus is y, I don't need a wheel to write out pchedy
Is there some kind of ruleset being followed for how far to rotate the wheel?
RE: [split] Volvelles or Disks - julian - 24-02-2026
(24-02-2026, 06:06 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(24-02-2026, 05:11 PM)AliciaNelPresente Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Apologies if i'm misunderstanding, but in that video isn't the person basically picking whichever symbol they wish, for as many symbols as they wish, in any order they wish? What would be the point of the wheel in such a case? If you know which symbol means what, and you may choose which symbols on the wheel to write freely, why not simply write the symbols in the correct order?
For example, in the first "word" the plaintext is claimed to be: Praeparare Calx Hydrata Extractum Dosis Crystallus
So if praeparare is p, Calx Hydrata is ch, Extractum is e, Dosis is d, Crystallus is y, I don't need a wheel to write out pchedy
Is there some kind of ruleset being followed for how far to rotate the wheel?
I have the same/similar questions as eggyk. Some narration on the video might help, as well as going much more slowly - it's too fast for me to pick up what is happening in detail. I also feel like the word length statistics aren't quite right, but can't back that up.
But this all seems quite exciting to me!