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+--- Thread: Cvetka's Slovenian Theory Thread (/thread-4758.html)
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 30-04-2024
(30-04-2024, 11:46 AM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So, did anyone try it? Did anyone go to Google Translate and put in Czech "s"?
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It would be very ironic if the intention of the creators of the Voynich Manuscript was the opposite of encryption but their efforts ended up producing one of the greatest encryptions of all. All those illustrations with all those labels, it looks like they were eager to share information, not hide it, and yet hiding the information is exactly what they ended up doing. But what is bothering me is, if Czech is the language then why have all the people who made that claim produced such dreadful translations?
In Czeck, free standing S definitelly stands for S, but so does in Slovenian, that is how I can read Czeck. [attachment=8475] The words in red indicate the S as the capital S was written in German script. I transcribe the words
S SWU -with all
S SWATU - with wholy,
S SVYMI- with their own (plural)
S SWYM . - with his own (sing)
Slovenian language does not use W, so the SW woud be EVA f
Also, note the distinction betwen two different lettershapes for J-sound, the ones in the red squares are vowels, the ones in the green squares are consonants.
Also, pay attention to the J in the green box - the letter shape is similar to EVA y, which is the reason why the researchers cannot decide if the 9-like glyph is Y or Latin abbreviation con- or us-. In the Godlen legend, from which this sample was taken, this form of J is used for Jesus (pronounced as yes-us), jedan (one), jest (I).
The letter G was not used in Czeck alphabet, except for the foreign words, like ANGELE, AUGUSTIN.
The Golden Legend Manuscript, like many other 15th century manuscripts, can also help us understand the strings of 'ee ee' or 'cc cc', because the VM researchers consider only EVA u (which is identical to au), but they failed to notice that the u is different from cc or ee. While the Latin letter V is used for the soud u, the v shape was used in some German manuscripts for the sound f (Vater- Father). In Slovenian, w was replace with v when a consonant was needed, and as U when a vowel was needed. In the Voynich Manuscript, both v and u are used.
In my opinion, the mystery of the Voynich manuscript will not be solved, until the transliteration alphabet is correct (EVA is missing u shape and z shape. Also, the minims in the VM are only read as EVA in, iin, iiin. While the flourish on the last minim can be read as n or as v, EVA iv could be read as iv, iiv as m or in, iiiv as im or jiw. All these transliterations are Slavic suffixes, as well as the VM glyph transliterated as m, which I transliterate as -il.
While -il can be changed to EVA m, the other minims would have to be changed manualy, because in most words, there is no clear separation of minims.
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - pjburkshire - 30-04-2024
(30-04-2024, 02:25 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, pay attention to the J in the green box - the letter shape is similar to EVA y, which is the reason why the researchers cannot decide if the 9-like glyph is Y or Latin abbreviation con- or us-. In the Godlen legend, from which this sample was taken, this form of J is used for Jesus (pronounced as yes-us), jedan (one), jest (I).
Sorry, I do not know where to find attachment=8475.
I see some green boxes (squares) in your post but I do not see any red boxes (squares).
I don't see J, I only see G.
I don't know the words DOU and DUUSE. They do not mean anything to me.
I know you are trying to tell me something but I don't understand.
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - pjburkshire - 30-04-2024
I think the word you have labeled as "188 f105v" is the first word on the 4th line from the bottom.
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The voynichese.com has this:
doee
One match, in folio f105v.
Are you saying it should be the word "DOU"? What does the word "DOU" mean?
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - pjburkshire - 30-04-2024
I don't know what you mean by "p15/7r". I looked on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but if "DUUSE" is there, I didn't find it.
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RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - nablator - 30-04-2024
(30-04-2024, 03:54 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't know what you mean by "p15/7r". I looked on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but if "DUUSE" is there, I didn't find it.
It's on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
@Cvetka:
Why a double U for duše (souls)? A plural form, on a herbal page only, and no duša or other case (declension) anywhere...
What about the many non final eee, how do you interpret them? The common (186) eeey and less common eeoy: UEJ, UOJ?
For example on f86v5: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - pjburkshire - 30-04-2024
(30-04-2024, 04:24 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why a double U for duše (souls)?
My hypothesis is that the people who created the Voynichese alphabet created it phonetically to help people learn to read the language that they already spoke (but who didn't read Latin) so there may be many cases where the Voynichese words have a different spelling from the way words are (now) traditionally spelled.
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - nablator - 30-04-2024
(30-04-2024, 04:38 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My hypothesis is that the people who created the Voynichese alphabet created it phonetically to help people learn to read the language that they already spoke (but who didn't read Latin) so there may be many cases where the Voynichese words have a different spelling from the way words are (now) traditionally spelled.
As shocking as it may seem, you are not the first to have this idea.
However linguists are not totally clueless and the language family would have been identified long ago. No good match was found so far. The problem is much more difficult, there are many features that can't be explained by any language, phonetically written or not. Ignoring problems does not make them go away.
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 30-04-2024
(30-04-2024, 04:24 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(30-04-2024, 03:54 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't know what you mean by "p15/7r". I looked on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but if "DUUSE" is there, I didn't find it.
It's on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Why a double U for duše (souls)? A plural form, on a herbal page only, and no duša or other case (declension) anywhere...
What about the many non final eee, how do you interpret them? The common (186) eeey and less common eeoy: UEJ, UOJ?
For example on f86v5: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Sorry, I was rearranging the attachments and posted too early. I intended to post the samples of Czeck words with 9-like glyph, where i and j are read the same.
The last attachment was related to the letter shape u
Here are some more clearly written u letters. Adding u to the transliteration alphabet creates even more ambiguous words.
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - pjburkshire - 30-04-2024
(30-04-2024, 05:41 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here are some more clearly written u letters. Adding u to the transliteration alphabet creates even more ambiguous words.
Are you saying you don't know the meaning of any of these words?
RE: [split] Cvetka's theory thread - pjburkshire - 30-04-2024
(30-04-2024, 05:38 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(30-04-2024, 04:38 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My hypothesis is that the people who created the Voynichese alphabet created it phonetically to help people learn to read the language that they already spoke (but who didn't read Latin) so there may be many cases where the Voynichese words have a different spelling from the way words are (now) traditionally spelled.
As shocking as it may seem, you are not the first to have this idea.
Garbage in, garbage out. I think the data may be dirtier than we like to think.