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+--- Thread: The cross and the presence or lack of Christian influences (/thread-1975.html)
RE: The cross and the presence or lack of Christian influences - Mark Knowles - 06-11-2019
(05-11-2019, 01:35 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(04-11-2019, 01:59 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are there many examples of crosses in other herbal manuscripts of that period?
That's a strange question: crosses do not appear in the Voynich herbal sections. But of course, no, herbals mostly represent plants and crosses are not frequent. Some herbals include scenes with people and these scenes may occasionally include a cross. An example is the cross at the top of the building in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., XIII / XIV Century, Southern Italy, f.29v.
My point was that it is often stated that there is a shortage of Christian symbols in the manuscript, I just wonder if that is unusual. I think one could be the most zealous Christian and write a herbal or astrological manuscript and include no or very few crosses.
RE: The cross and the presence or lack of Christian influenc - Soulscribe - 21-07-2025
Hi, I’m new to the forum. I apologize if this has already been covered or brought up. I originally was looking to see what people were saying about the cross in the nymphs hands and then came across someone in this thread that posted an image from Ms. Digby 48 that had a pattern in it that I drew from the VM yesterday. I kept scrolling and saw some other people in this thread share other images with crosses in hands and on buildings but the manuscript images they shared ALSO had the icon/design from the VM as well. The icons from the VM that I drew were from the astrology section. I believed it to be the marker where one would begin if they were to read the circles or to line something up with it. I’ve put together some images I found in Ms. Digby 48 that have the same “cross” as the Voynich. The square cross icon is found many more times in the Digby and I don’t know if that’s a particular design from somewhere specific..? But the Digby scribe (or scribes? Not sure if there was more than one) loved the icon a lot. I’m also curious if the scribe from the VM who drew the icon was the only one or if they all drew it. I’d love to know what I don’t know and y’all tell me what you think.
RE: The cross and the presence or lack of Christian influences - R. Sale - 21-07-2025
It's a pattern that was somewhat commonly used with a number of variations.
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I see it more as a semi-floral quatrefoil fitted into a rectangle.
RE: The cross and the presence or lack of Christian influences - RadioFM - 21-07-2025
Thanks for bringing up Bodley 46 ms again, I don't think I've noticed this faded double loop gallows t (?) on the right-side margin, f107v.
I'm aware ligatures and traces like ꝭ, similar to k, are sometimes used to abbreviate Latin, and the discussion of f/p looking like capitula.
Do we have examples of things like t standing for something in other Ms?
RE: The cross and the presence or lack of Christian influences - MarcoP - 21-07-2025
(21-07-2025, 03:59 PM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks for bringing up Bodley 46 ms again, I don't think I've noticed this faded double loop gallows t (?) on the right-side margin, f107v.
I'm aware ligatures and traces like ꝭ, similar to k, are sometimes used to abbreviate Latin, and the discussion of f/p looking like capitula.
Do we have examples of things like t standing for something in other Ms?
They are fairly rare.
Thomas Sauvaget pointed out a few examples in Cod.Sang.839 (1453) f.1r:
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EDIT: From You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I understand that the first occurrence below the rubricated Quarto stands for "etc"
formari propositiones necessarie; igitur etc. Consequentia tenet, quia de illo de quo
Years ago davidsch pointed out this page from Wellcome MS.55 f.93r (in red, near the left border). This is dated 1472-1474:
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These are both a little later than the VMS. I am not sure there are other known examples of EVA:t from earlier Latin manuscripts