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+--- Thread: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS (/thread-1745.html)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 04-11-2025
Yes, they’re very simple sketches but they do seem to adhere to the components of the equipment and how they connect. The Voynich “kind of” does that. Did you notice page 97 (or 109) by the way? It looks like an alchemical alphabet. If this dates to early 15th c, then we might have alchemical symbols from that time period after all. But it’s hard to tell if this alphabet was added later. What did you think when you saw it?
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - MarcoP - 04-11-2025
It's a simple substitution cipher. Cipher symbols don't look particularly alchemical to me. They are mostly letters, ligatures or digits. From the plain text alphabet, it looks 15th century, in my opinion
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 04-11-2025
True it’s substitution. I find it interesting that I’ve seen many of those signs before though - either in Agrippa or Picatrix I expect. Some of them are planetary or constellation signs, and as you know, these were borrowed by alchemy for metals, etc., and as this is an alchemical text? But I know little about this area, just sharing what I’ve seen.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 04-11-2025
When considering whether Johannes de Rupescissa was involved not only in “life-prolonging alchemy” but also specifically in remedies, I came across the following passage:
Leiden University Libraries, De quinta essentia / Jean de Rocquetaillade ( Johannes de Rupescissa ), VCQ 23, German regions?, 15th century, folio 40r
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Machine translation of the beginning of the page:
Here begins the second book, entitled “On General Remedies.”
This first book, which deals with the efficacy and nature of such a great power and truth, shows that through it all diseases in the world can be cured or even prevented from the effects of other ailments ...
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - nablator - 04-11-2025
(04-11-2025, 01:46 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When considering whether Johannes de Rupescissa was involved not only in “life-prolonging alchemy” but also specifically in remedies, I came across the following passage:
2nd book of De consideratione quintae essentiae, printed in this 1597 edition: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 04-11-2025
(04-11-2025, 02:23 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:2nd book of De consideratione quintae essentiae, printed in this 1597 edition: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Machine-generated Latin transcription (modernized)
Licet primus liber, qui est de consideratione quintae essentiae, tantae virtutis in rei veritate existat, ut per eam possit curari omnis morbus curabilis, si quis velit profunda ruminare naturae et artificii caelica principia quae detexi; tamen quia non omnes, etiam qui videntur aliquid scire, ex principiis conclusionem recte deducere sciunt, contra infelicitates naturae docebo in hoc secundo libro sanitatis remedia subitò procurare, et quasi miraculosè evangelicis viris, ut ex his divinis remediis reddantur habiles, animosi et fortes ad universos perfectionis labores.
English translation:
Although the first book, which deals with the contemplation of the quintessence, is so powerful in the truth of the matter that through it every curable disease can be healed if someone wants to thoroughly consider the depths of nature and the heavenly work of art that I have uncovered—
I nevertheless teach, because not everyone, even those who seem to know something, understands how to correctly deduce the conclusion from the principles, against the misfortunes of nature, in this second book, to quickly obtain the remedies of health and, as it were, in a miraculous way, following the example of the evangelical men, so that through these divine remedies they may be made capable, courageous, and strong for all works of perfection.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 04-11-2025
The following manuscript is, according to a critical edition by Udo Benzenhöfer, one of the oldest editions of the Liber de consideratione:
Salzburg, Universitätsbibliothek, M II 180
MEDIZINISCH-NATURWISSENSCHAFTLICHE SAMMELHANDSCHRIFT — Elsass, 1438-1440, folio 72r
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"Hie vohet an daz Register des Buches von der heimelichkeit und bluomen aller ertznie und von dem fúnfften wesen"
English translation:
“Here begins the register of the book about the secrets and flowers of all medicines and about the fifth element.”
It's a bit of a pity that Diebold Lauber didn't illustrate this part of the manuscript.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 04-11-2025
(04-11-2025, 04:56 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The following manuscript is, according to a critical edition by Udo Benzenhöfer, one of the oldest editions of the Liber de consideratione:
Salzburg, Universitätsbibliothek, M II 180
MEDIZINISCH-NATURWISSENSCHAFTLICHE SAMMELHANDSCHRIFT — Elsass, 1438-1440, folio 72r
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"Hie vohet an daz Register des Buches von der heimelichkeit und bluomen aller ertznie und von dem fúnfften wesen"
English translation:
“Here begins the register of the book about the secrets and flowers of all medicines and about the fifth element.”
It's a bit of a pity that Diebold Lauber didn't illustrate this part of the manuscript.
What do you think was meant by “flowers”? Herbs? Or words of wisdom?
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 04-11-2025
(04-11-2025, 05:27 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What do you think was meant by “flowers”? Herbs? Or words of wisdom?
That's a very good question. Based on the sentence structure, I would take the headline in M II 180 more literally, i.e., flowers / herbs. However, interpreting it as “words of wisdom” also makes perfect sense.
I once read somewhere that “flower” can also be the most refined, effective, and spiritual principle of a thing, whether physical (e.g., wine, metal) or spiritual (e.g., virtue, soul). However, I can no longer find the source.
Here is a hint:
Quote:Dissertation, Andreas Eckert, Zur Alchemie im Mittelalter, Graz 2016, page 28
Sublimation (Sublimatio)
A solid body is vaporized in whole or in part, and this vapor then condenses on cooler parts of the vessel without passing through a liquid phase. Sublimation was used to purify sulfur, cinnabar, and ammonium chloride (sal ammoniac). The sublimates were often referred to as flores (flowers) because their structure was very fine or crystalline.
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edit: There is also an edition that contains a glossary of medicinal herbs.
wellcome collection, MS.708, Johannes de Rupescissa, De consideratione quintae essentiae, 1443
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - R. Sale - 04-11-2025
Is there a glyph in the Post #452 symbol sequence that might have alchemical references?