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+--- Thread: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS (/thread-1745.html)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Koen G - 25-09-2025
(25-09-2025, 04:35 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t that suggest that there is a connection between Scribe B and the painter who ran out of red?
Not necessarily - you'd be surprised at the hypotheticals people can come up with
There would be a connection, for example, in the following order of events:
- images penned
- images painted, red paint sparse
- text written
- B scribe has more red paint now so adds this to his pages
There would be no connection if it went something like this though:
- images penned
- text written
- images painted, apart from red
- Red added in separate pass. For some reason, this process did not reach the further pages.
It seems clear to me that some pages did not undergo the red "pass", since the human figures on the recto of the Rosettes page don't have blush or red lips. Red also seems to be missing from f101r, while those containers are clearly asking for it.
This topic is immensely complicated by the pages' being out of order though. I'm looking forward to Lisa's talk tomorrow, which might touch on page order.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 25-09-2025
(25-09-2025, 05:11 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(25-09-2025, 04:35 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t that suggest that there is a connection between Scribe B and the painter who ran out of red?
Not necessarily - you'd be surprised at the hypotheticals people can come up with
There would be a connection, for example, in the following order of events:
- images penned
- images painted, red paint sparse
- text written
- B scribe has more red paint now so adds this to his pages
There would be no connection if it went something like this though:
- images penned
- text written
- images painted, apart from red
- Red added in separate pass. For some reason, this process did not reach the further pages.
It seems clear to me that some pages did not undergo the red "pass", since the human figures on the recto of the Rosettes page don't have blush or red lips. Red also seems to be missing from f101r, while those containers are clearly asking for it.
This topic is immensely complicated by the pages' being out of order though. I'm looking forward to Lisa's talk tomorrow, which might touch on page order.
I think one could argue red/orange is missing altogether from the rosettes pages too. The outer ring of stuff around the central sphere is clearly flames. Hildebrand got the colour right, but our painter leaves them pale yellow. I just don’t know if this is the painter’s choice for …reasons…or they ran out of red.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - R. Sale - 25-09-2025
It could be as simple as something left for later, but later never happened.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 15-10-2025
My new placemat
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - nablator - 15-10-2025
(15-10-2025, 08:20 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My new placemat
"Medieval" alchemical symbols, mostly from the 17th century.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 15-10-2025
(15-10-2025, 11:21 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(15-10-2025, 08:20 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My new placemat
"Medieval" alchemical symbols, mostly from the 17th century.
Yes, that's correct. Manufacturers aren't too strict about that.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 16-10-2025
(15-10-2025, 11:26 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(15-10-2025, 11:21 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(15-10-2025, 08:20 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My new placemat
"Medieval" alchemical symbols, mostly from the 17th century.
Yes, that's correct. Manufacturers aren't too strict about that.
Haha. Basil Valentine wasn’t either. It’s really too bad because I think these alchemy symbols are more suggestive of the VMS script than anything else I’ve seen. But in circa 1420, each alchemist seemed to make up their own if they used them at all.
I do wonder how long the symbol for aqua vitae had been used before Valentine. It’s also the actual Pisces configuration. Those two -aqua vitae and Pisces - are my main candidates for the little “clock” symbol on the rosettes page.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 16-10-2025
(16-10-2025, 05:30 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I do wonder how long the symbol for aqua vitae had been used before Valentine.
It has been proven that the term “aqua vitae” was introduced by John of Rupescissa at the latest:
Quote:The term "Aqua vitae" was used by the 14th-century alchemist John of Rupescissa, who believed the then newly discovered substance of ethanol to be an imperishable and life-giving "fifth essence" or quintessence, and who extensively studied its medical properties.[1]
[1] Principe, Lawrence M. (2013). The Secrets of Alchemy. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, pp. 69-71
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However, I was only able to find clear evidence of the alchemical symbol in the 17th century. Here is an example (aqua vitae => spiritus vini).
Folger MS V.a.287, Notebook of John Ward, 1658 – 1671, front endleaf 4 verso – 1 recto
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Folger MS V.a.291, Notebook of John Ward, January 1660/61-February 1661/62., 219688
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If you know of any writings by Basilius Valentinus that contain this symbol, that would be very interesting. After all, the first prints appeared around 60 years before John Ward's notebooks.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Jorge_Stolfi - 16-10-2025
(16-10-2025, 11:21 AM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.believed the then newly discovered substance of ethanol
"Newly discovered" only in Europe. Ethanol was conjectured by Ancient Greek and by the Baghdad Caliphate alchemist Jabir Ibn Hayyam (806−816). (He should be called the Grandfather of Chemistry, since he is considered the discoverer of citric, sulfuric, hydrochloric, and nitric acids, as well as the mix of the last two, aqua regia, that dissolves gold.) Those philosophers had observed that hot wine releases a flammable vapor. The preparation of liquid ethanol is attributed to other Caliphate alchemists of the 800s, like Al-Razi or Al-Kindi.
The works of Jabir (Latinized as Geber) and other Caliphate alchemists were translated from Arabic to Latin in the 1100s or 1200s, first in Italy IIRC. They were responsible for the proliferation of Medieval Alchemists as depicted in the popular culture, since aqua regia seemed to open the door to the transmutation and perhaps creation of gold by chemical means. Jabir also invented a modification of Aristotle's Four Element theory, that seemed to justify that hope.
All the best, --jorge
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 16-10-2025
(16-10-2025, 12:17 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."Newly discovered" only in Europe.
Yes, my focus was indeed on the European Middle Ages, as I hoped to find symbolism similar to the table above there. Unfortunately, I only found what I was looking for in the 17th century. @Nablator is probably right. Many, if not most, symbols were only standardized then, if one can even speak of a standard in this regard. The caption “A Table of medieval alchemical symbols” is therefore misleading, but the table is certainly decorative.
edit: The last will and testament of Basil Valentine, 1671
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