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+--- Thread: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? (/thread-3573.html)
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - R. Sale - 03-07-2021
One detail mostly missing here is the distinction between the standard T-O images, where the lower half has been subdivided, and the *inverted* T-O version, where the upper half is split.
Regular T-O versions do tend to be geographic, with Asia at the top, while inverted representations are often elemental, with water at the bottom. (BNF Fr. 565 & Harley 334) Generally there are also sufficient visual clues to tell one version from the other.
The VMs is an *inverted* T-O. However it is not a pictorial representation. The switch to a linguistic description removes all chance of visual comparison. A person intent of making a copy of a pictorial illustration is likely to make another pictorial representation. The change from pictorial representation to linguistic description is called a code shift. It is not accidental. What remains in the VMs is the inverted T-O structure.
The VMs cosmos is a concerted effort to present a visually diverse, cosmic representation that contains the same structural elements (inverted T-O earth, surrounding stars and a cosmic boundary) as the BNF and Harley mss above.
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - MarcoP - 03-07-2021
(03-07-2021, 06:31 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@davidjackson
I can understand you well. I have one here too. But I have no idea what it means.
As David wrote, this appears to be a printer's device. The one on the left (I.T.) is the device of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (1497); the one on the right (O.S.M.) could belong to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (1480 ca).
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - davidjackson - 03-07-2021
(03-07-2021, 08:38 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.One detail mostly missing here is the distinction between the standard T-O images, where the lower half has been subdivided, and the *inverted* T-O version, where the upper half is split.Depends upon the orientation. West was "up" when Asia is in the top half. Other T-O maps are swivelled to give North as Up.
Same with the "T". Sometimes it is the two great rivers + the Med; othertimes we see it as other bodies of water, such as this one:
![[Image: T-O_Map.JPG]](https://www.princeton.edu/~his291/Jpegs/T-O_Map.JPG)
(The great cold North Sea and the Med)
If you look at the traditional T-O map on a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the Orb held by Kings) you'll see that Europe is always at the top.
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - Anton - 03-07-2021
A good example reminding that the label set can be Sem, Cham, Jafeth instead of Asia, Africa, Europe
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - R. Sale - 03-07-2021
Of course, there are different variations, but the standard T-O as geographical and the inverted T-O as elemental seems to be the most consistent correlation discovered so far.
However: @[b]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/b][/b]
"Depends upon the orientation. West was "up" when Asia is in the top half."
Is that 'Oriens' the *other* West??
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - davidjackson - 04-07-2021
(03-07-2021, 11:35 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."Depends upon the orientation. West was "up" when Asia is in the top half."
Is that 'Oriens' the *other* West??
East, of course, the Rising Sun. Sorry.
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - Searcher - 04-07-2021
(01-07-2021, 10:15 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In fact if anybody were to ask me which word in the Voynich I could best guess the meaning of, I would say, EVA-asal is "asia" as we read in the T/O map on the Rosettes folio.Why are you sure it is asal? It looks rather as osal or oral.
osal has only three matches on pages: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (text with stars), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (balneo pages), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (text with stars)
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - Searcher - 04-07-2021
I'd note that I didn't find osal in any other rosette on the foldout, only osar and osaiin. In the same time okor, the word of the right little section of the T/O map (looking in the usual orientation of the page), occurs here at least two times, in the left top rosette and in the central one.
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - Mark Knowles - 04-07-2021
(04-07-2021, 08:41 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I agree that one cannot be certain what is written. One problem is that it is difficult to read the faded text, so it is not quite clear what any if the labels in the Rosettes T/O map actually say. My judgement is that it says EVA-asal, but it certainly could be read differently.(01-07-2021, 10:15 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In fact if anybody were to ask me which word in the Voynich I could best guess the meaning of, I would say, EVA-asal is "asia" as we read in the T/O map on the Rosettes folio.Why are you sure it is asal? It looks rather as osal or oral.
osal has only three matches on pages: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (text with stars), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (balneo pages), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (text with stars)
This is one of those situations where even the current high resolution scans are insufficient to be able to come to a definite conclusion as to what is written.
I think the first letter in the half-circle vord is more like the third letter in the half-circle vord (EVA-a) than the third letter in the quarter-circle vord (EVA-o) as highlighted in red, but this is very much up to interpretation. So that is why I think it is an EVA-a.
RE: Rosettes foldout: cardinal directions? - Koen G - 02-09-2021
This may be irrelevant, but I noticed something in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., a late 13th century copy of the Liber Floridus. Those strange "finger waves" are used within a T-O map.
In the original Liber Floridus, the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. just uses a plain old T-O map in the planetary diagram. I don't know why the copyist decided to cover a large part of Asia with these peculiar shapes.