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+--- Thread: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) (/thread-6099.html)
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - Rafal - 20-09-2026
Quote:* Interesting? Very.
* Relevant? Likely.
* Direct source for VM? Probably not this very MS.
Well, I would love to have a "direct hit" but I guess I have to agree.
My aproach is: always remember that only 10% of medieval manuscripts survived. Repeat it like a mantra - only 10% survived, only 10% survived...
It means for any Voynich direct source that with 90% probability it doesn't exist anymore
In most cases we will have only its "cousins".But this manuscript for me is close, really close...
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - JustAnotherTheory - 20-09-2026
Good find. I will say that that the particular folding of the skirt in these MSs is a very good match for that of the Voynich MS crossbowman.
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - JustAnotherTheory - 20-09-2026
(20-09-2026, 10:02 PM)Rafal wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But this manuscript for me is close, really close...
I agree. But who could have seen this (or a close relative of this) and the Taccola notebook too? This seems to be a very small overlap.
As far as we know, the Taccola illustrations are originals. So no such thing existed before him. He invented those particular drawings. Between this MS (1414) and book III-IV of Taccola (finished 1433), there are 19 years. Where do these overlap, geographically and temporally?
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - Koen G - 20-09-2026
The Taccola MS is extremely rare.
But German MSS that use these kinds of images were extremely common, disseminated and accessible. Assuming that whoever made the VM (or one of them) could have seen or even owned a Hausbuch type of MS is no problem at all. It's more like an interborriwing mesh of connected stuff that lots and lots of people would have seen.
One thing to always keep in mind is that fashion in particular is indicative of a common time frame in the very first place.
Also, the boar and bear hunt has guys with much better hats
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - JustAnotherTheory - 22-09-2026
How sure are we that the VMS Artist copied Taccola's Pal. 766, instead of a copy of a copy?
As far as I'm concerned, there are two major similarities between the VMS and Pal. 766:
- The face with the rays shining around it, on the last page of Pal. 766. This is apparently an original composition by Taccola, present in no other work anywhere else. It matches strongly f70r2.
- The bridge with the cliffs and water flowing on both sides. This is also a very strong match with that of Quire 13.
Could it be that there is a copy of Pal. 766 that we haven't discovered yet, and thus the direct involvement of Pal. 766 is no longer relevant to the story of the VMS?
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - MarcoP - 22-09-2026
At the bottom of f.73r there's a very faded image of Lunaria (no text). The illustration on the verso interferes and makes the plant even harder to see clearly. Lunaria is a magical plant with a long textual tradition dating back to the late antiquity; centuries later, it was included in the Alchemical Herbal.
The two bended spikes at the top and the stubs of the fallen leaves make this illustration somehow similar to one of the Lunarias in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The sawtooth root is unique, as far as I know.
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - eggyk - 24-09-2026
By chance i stumbled across another 13thC version of the work, supposedly from England.
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The siren in this one is... not as mermaidy. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
RE: A SOMEWHAT IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - Linda - 25-09-2026
(20-09-2026, 12:02 PM)Rafal wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:I don't think this Manuscript has been discussed...
Nice thing. A lot of pages in the beginning are text only but pictures begin later so use thumbnails or download complete .pdf to get to them easily.
By the way, is it only my impression or is this guy quite similar to Voynich Sagittarius?
(I recall reading somewhere that Voynich Sagittarius is a German hunter type)
There is another on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and others which have been posted already that are similar, showing the hats and style of clothing.
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - JustAnotherTheory - 26-09-2026
I am now convinced that this particular image (mermaid with weird animals in a lake) is a copy of a particular edition of Das Buch Der Natur.
Every single edition, or copy, written by hand or printed, has at least one mermaid and one dog with dots on its back, just like in the VMS. Here is an example of a printed version, which also has these two creatures:
RE: [split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109) - Koen G - 27-09-2026
I wouldn't say "copy", but I agree there seems to be a strong connection. Possibly versions of all four creatures can be tracked to these, though careful comparison would be useful before drawing strong conclusions.
In the clip you just posted, right at the top, there is al long-necked creature picking a fight with one with a ridged back. The long-necked one in its various form could be the inspiration for the yellow VM animal. And the red VM animal has a slender form and a very noticeably ridged back.