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Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1? - Printable Version

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RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1? - ololololo - 15-07-2026

(15-07-2026, 06:40 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Objectively, it should have been very valuable to some scholars -- even if they could not read it right away, or if the attached Voynichese-Latin glossary was only two pages long.
If this is indeed the case, then it was more likely that the book was sold not by the author, but by the second owner who made the notes on f17r, f66v, and f116v, as he received the manuscript directly from the author.
It seems unlikely to me that a person who has worked hard on a manuscript would agree to sell it himself, but who knows...

RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1? - Jorge_Stolfi - 16-07-2026

(15-07-2026, 07:46 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(15-07-2026, 06:40 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Objectively, it should have been very valuable to some scholars
If this is indeed the case, then it was more likely that the book was [not] sold. ... It seems unlikely to me that a person who has worked hard on a manuscript would agree to sell it himself, but who knows...

On the contrary: the transposition to vellum, with lots of blank spaces and apparently meaningless decoration, only makes sense if the vellum copy was meant for someone else.  None of that would be needed if the Author himself was the only intended reader: for that, his draft on paper would have  been enough.

Maybe he did not intend to sell, but to give as a present to a good scholar friend.  Or to a local big shot, in the hope of receiving some benefit in return.  Or maybe he meant to leave it as legacy to his heirs, or to the world.  

But "for sale" seems at least as likely as those alternatives.   Especially considering the quality of the vellum and the, let's say, limited skills of the Scribe that he recruited: he probably was rather strained financially when he decided to create the vellum copy.

Quote:[It is more likely that the book was] sold not by the author, but by the second owner who made the notes on f17r, f66v, and f116v, as he received the manuscript directly from the author.

I don't see any reason to assume that the author of the marginalia had contact with the Author.  On the contrary, I suspect that the marginalia were added by someone who did not understand the book at all.

All the best, --stolfi

RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1? - ololololo - 16-07-2026

(16-07-2026, 12:07 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.On the contrary, I suspect that the marginalia were added by someone who did not understand the book at all.
Or at least he thought he did...
(16-07-2026, 12:07 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe he did not intend to sell, but to give as a present to a good scholar friend. Or to a local big shot, in the hope of receiving some benefit in return. Or maybe he meant to leave it as legacy to his heirs, or to the world.
This sounds more likely. But in this case, the book could have been sold by an heir who had previously revised it, tried to decipher it, and realized that he didn't need it.

RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1? - ololololo - 18-07-2026

Perhaps, by the way, this
   

RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1? - ololololo - 18-07-2026

Or this
   

RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1? - ololololo - 15-08-2026

(13-07-2026, 06:19 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From the point of view of medieval science, diagram 1 should represent a geocentric model. Indeed, the center shows a T-O map that can be compared to the Earth. The stars surrounding the Earth are the stars, and the blue cloud is the celestial sphere. This is consistent with the medieval belief that the stars were fixed to the celestial sphere. Curved bands can symbolize the rotation of celestial bodies around the Earth.
Apparently, it’s worth sharing my opinion about the Oresme map, which Stolfi is dissatisfied with.
When I say that diagram f68v3 can depict the Earth in a geocentric representation, I am not denying the similarity to the notorious Oresme map.
First of all, the Oresme map is still a map of the Earth, so I don’t see any problem with saying that it’s the Earth.
Secondly, f68v3 differs from the Oresme map in that the latter is surrounded by a special pebble‑like pattern (I’ve forgotten what it’s called, sorry Sick ), whereas f68v3 is located in a cloud, and its pattern, if it’s similar to the map, is very stretched.
Thirdly, I also take into account the spirals. The most banal interpretation of them is a clear demonstration of rotation around an object, i.e., the Earth. Taking into account the subsequent diagrams, and in particular considering f67r2, I assume that this illustrates the essence of geocentrism — the Earth, around which celestial bodies revolve.
Perhaps the author did not want to draw the T‑O map, or did not know about it, or forgot about it, or had only Oresme’s map in front of him, using it as a prototype for the central depiction of the Earth.