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+--- Thread: Paracelsian spagyric medicine (/thread-5749.html)
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - pmw57 - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 10:59 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I didn't understand, does pceoba mean mixture?
pceoba is thought to be an abbreviated form of piacevol-oleobagnata.
I get the feeling though that we may be approaching things all backwards.
My results are only a windsock, they're not actually landing the plane.
What we need is for people familiar with Mercantesca to start from the transliterated text treating it as being heavily abbreviated, and work things forward from there.
AVA (modified) transliteration
<f99r.15> <%>pceoba/ oleoba/ <!gap> bam {cp}eea/ l{c’}oi bai {cp}eoi oiam rar
<f99r.16> raro{c’}a/ {c’}or s {c’}or {c’}eoi tloi {c’}eoi (per)oeoi {c’}oi tloi {cl}oi {ctl}ora/
<f99r.17> bceor cr ai a/{ctl}a/ otleoi {ctl}or oram cor (per)otleeor cora/
<f99r.18> (per)otleor coi {c’}loi ceea/ coba/ {ctl}oi bam otleoia/ bam {ctl}a/<$>
Why Mercantesca? There are several good matching hits with what's shown at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
That, and other aspects of the transliterated text indicates the use of a scribal economy of the time.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - Ruby Novacna - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 11:19 AM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.pceoba is thought to be an abbreviated form of piacevol-oleobagnata
Is piacevol-oleobagnata modern or medieval Italian?
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - pmw57 - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 12:23 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(18-05-2026, 11:19 AM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.pceoba is thought to be an abbreviated form of piacevol-oleobagnata
Is piacevol-oleobagnata modern or medieval Italian?
Prior to that it was “piacevolmenta bollita”.
When translating the expanded 15th century Italian to modern Italian and modern English, the 15th century vernacular is deliberately left behind.
The pipeline is: transliteration => 15th century expansion => modern prose.
This helps to indicate the important of having people involved in the process.
I am not wanting to rely on AI. My preference by far is to have people get involved that are familiar with Italian Mercantesca. Initial results are promising but none of that means anything until skilled people put their minds to it.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - eggyk - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 11:19 AM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.pceoba is thought to be an abbreviated form of piacevol-oleobagnata.
Is thought to be? You think it to be? Can you justify how and why that is the case? Why not any other word set of "P, O, B", or "P, CE, OB, A"?
At the link you provided for Mercantesca paleography, their example is fairly possible to transcribe, as the changes are not massive in the abbreviations.
For example: "Qi a pie ⁊ inazi" is the abbreviation for "Qui a pie et inanzi", and "charte tuti mie fati popi" is the abbeviation for "charte tutti mie fatti propi"
(They are clearly NOT something like "qap⁊in" or "chatifatpo")
(18-05-2026, 03:45 AM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The mixture is softened and oiled in the bath, then strain it into the water bath for the plant tops;
Where in this line do we find either "piacevol-oleobagnata" or "piacevolmente bollita"? I don't speak italian, but google translate doesn't indicate that they are the same. One is translated as something like "pleasant oil wet" and the other is "pleasantly boiled".
(18-05-2026, 12:48 PM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am not wanting to rely on AI. My preference by far is to have people get involved that are familiar with Italian Mercantesca. Initial results are promising but none of that means anything until skilled people put their minds to it.
By initial results, you mean relying on results from the thing you don't want to rely on? Theres a logical inconsistency here: These AI results cannot be trusted and require expert help to verify, yet the entire justification for further expert help is that these initial results are promising?
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - Ruby Novacna - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 12:48 PM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The pipeline is: transliteration => 15th century expansion => modern prose.
It's not too bad, in my opinion, but please provide the results of these three steps.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - Rafal - 18-05-2026
By the way, didn't Paracelsus live 100 years after the Voynich Manuscript was created?
How important is he and his concepts in your theory?
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - pmw57 - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 01:43 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.By initial results, you mean relying on results from the thing you don't want to rely on? Theres a logical inconsistency here: These AI results cannot be trusted and require expert help to verify, yet the entire justification for further expert help is that these initial results are promising?
I think of it as being like a windsock at the airport. Four different types of them give very consistent results, helping to indicate that we are likely to be going in the right direction.
That’s why I brought my results here. Not to show off, but to bring people in on what is very promising ground to explore.
(18-05-2026, 02:20 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.By the way, didn't Paracelsus live 100 years after the Voynich Manuscript was created?
How important is he and his concepts in your theory?
From the results that I’m seeing the Voynich manuscript may well be an ur-document of Paracelcian Spagyric medicine some 100 years before its time.
The four paragraphs on f99r consistently follow the same process of separation, purification, recombination and fixation. All with no priming about those things.
I have no dog in the fight about this, but it would certainly act as a nice bonus if those promising results were confirmed.
That’s why I am here, to bring this likely good avenue of exploration to people that can reliably make good sense of things.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - tavie - 19-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 04:20 AM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'd like clarification from any mods here if they may allow me to do that, as the expanded Italian is with the assistance of AI doing some heavy lifting.
If it's anything like what was on your You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (before the moderators there deleted it), the answer will be 'no'. What you've put on there bears all the hallmarks of LLM slop.
LLMs, as you've been told, hallucinate very easily when it comes to the Voynich. We have a ban on theories and content that is LLM assisted because we don't want to waste members' time trying to unpick slop that was generated by an LLM in seconds.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - Koen G - 19-05-2026
That's enough.