The Voynich Ninja
A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - Printable Version

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RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - Ruby Novacna - 17-07-2025

In the case of 17r, can't it just be "luceret"?

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - Koen G - 17-07-2025

(17-07-2025, 12:04 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Could be percussionem, I guess.

That's also my best guess.

I scanned a few dozen more pages but haven't found any "c-3" yet. With the evidence we have though, I think Marco's suggestion of "lucent" is a reasonable one. Cappelli doesn't have "c-3" but does have two examples of "consonant-3", which are transcribed as -ent, in contrast to -et.

   

The "apparent" is a broader abbreviation, but the principle appears to be the same. The first example "debent" is a good parallel of how we'd get "lucent".

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - magnesium - 17-07-2025

(17-07-2025, 11:10 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. This fragment reads (transcription from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., footnote 79)

Hoc ungentum conficitur ex oleo et balsamo. Oleum lucet, balsamum redolet (This ointment is made from oil and balsam. The oil shines, the balsam is fragrant)



You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., this scribe often uses -3 for -et, and this is the case for “lucet” ("it shines", third person singular).
For the third word in the Voynich You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia, assuming that the text is Latin (very doubtful) and that the initial is ‘L’, a possible reading could maybe be “lucent” (where the macron stands for the missing ‘n’) - "they shine", third person plural. It would be interesting to see if the ‘c3’ abbreviation, or even just any combination with final -3, ever has a macron in L.52.


Comparing “milites” (L.52 f.11r line 10) with Voynich “multos”[?] shows that the final -s shape is (often) similar, but it appears to have been drawn in opposite directions in the two manuscripts.

The author of L.52 seems to be inconsistent in this regard. From f.46r:

[Image: bjmV8zN.png]

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - magnesium - 17-07-2025

Here's what looks to be an "oe3" with a macron in L.52, on the sixth-to-last line of f.47v:

[Image: mqBCpfO.png]

And three "e3"s in f.59r:

[Image: 6Rj4gUJ.png]

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - magnesium - 17-07-2025

(17-07-2025, 01:29 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(17-07-2025, 12:04 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Could be percussionem, I guess.

That's also my best guess.

I scanned a few dozen more pages but haven't found any "c-3" yet. With the evidence we have though, I think Marco's suggestion of "lucent" is a reasonable one. Cappelli doesn't have "c-3" but does have two examples of "consonant-3", which are transcribed as -ent, in contrast to -et.



The "apparent" is a broader abbreviation, but the principle appears to be the same. The first example "debent" is a good parallel of how we'd get "lucent".

f.59v may well have some words containing "lucet" that may be useful references that are worth double-checking.

[Image: coho9Xf.jpeg]

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - Koen G - 17-07-2025

Ah, very instructive. It shows that we are unlikely to find the VM version in this MS because it writes "lucent" in a different way.

   

Also, I remember someone (Marco?) telling me that the first glyph is likely not an L. But a K?

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - nablator - 17-07-2025

(17-07-2025, 04:00 PM)magnesium Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here's what looks to be an "oe3" with a macron in L.52, on the sixth-to-last line of f.47v:

[Image: mqBCpfO.png]

And three "e3"s in f.59r:

[Image: 6Rj4gUJ.png]

It's "omnem" in both cases I think.

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - magnesium - 17-07-2025

(16-07-2025, 03:45 AM)magnesium Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the name of thoroughness, this other manuscript I just found might not be nearly as good as the first one I found, but it's still pretty decent: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Just to bring to the group's attention, this manuscript also features some of the "upwards and backwards" marks and c3 ligatures.

Page 22 (note the "upwards and backwards," and what might be a "t3" ligature):

[Image: qX8iX72.png]

Near the bottom of page 41:

[Image: UOKrfMr.png]

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - nablator - 17-07-2025

(17-07-2025, 09:03 PM)magnesium Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.and what might be a "t3" ligature):

placet: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

iacet: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - ReneZ - 18-07-2025

(17-07-2025, 05:15 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, I remember someone (Marco?) telling me that the first glyph is likely not an L. But a K?

I once suggested that it may be a k, but then at least this word would be unlikely to be Latin.