The Voynich Ninja
An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - Printable Version

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RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - Ruby Novacna - 20-05-2025

(20-05-2025, 06:16 PM)davidd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.possibly: test grammar findings against other 15th c texts in known languages.

In my opinion, it would be really useful to take your first steps on a well-known text from the same period.

RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - davidd - 20-05-2025

(20-05-2025, 09:37 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(20-05-2025, 06:16 PM)davidd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.possibly: test grammar findings against other 15th c texts in known languages.

In my opinion, it would be really useful to take your first steps on a well-known text from the same period.
Do you have some suggestions, i need to have a flat text file, or something where i can easily copy paste the whole text to a simple textfile

RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - MarcoP - 20-05-2025

Personally, I would first try something as simple as 10k words from King James Bible. The first thing is checking that the method works on a straightforward text.

Later, you can move to one of the Chaucer manuscripts transcribed here:

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RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - davidd - 21-05-2025

(20-05-2025, 10:24 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Personally, I would first try something as simple as 10k words from King James Bible. The first thing is checking that the method works on a straightforward text.

Later, you can move to one of the Chaucer manuscripts transcribed here:

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Thanks, I will start with genesis You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I made it show members when you hover over a group . Sadly it doesnt work on the forum page for me, but if you right click -> open image in new tab , you can see the members when hovering

[Image: quireT6.svg]

RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - davidd - 21-05-2025

first try on the king james genesis

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[Image: kingjames.svg]

not perfect but decent 
Quote:members:  ['they', 'he', 'she', 'levi', 'afterward', 'whatsoever', 'goeth', 'offered', 'pursued', 'judah', 'reuben', 'lot', 'onan', 'laid'
, 'korah', 'trade', 'cain', 'pharaoh', 'joseph', 'laban', 'abimelech', 'jacob', 'isaac', 'leah', 'abraham', 'israel', 'god', 'noah', 'abram', 'rebekah', 'there', 'it', 'adam', 'esau', 'sarai', 'rachel', 'sarah', 'shelah', 'multiply', 'cainan', 'mahalaleel', 'jared', 'enos', 'methuselah', 'eber', 'serug', 'reu', 'arphaxad', 'salah', 'peleg', 'lamech', 'enoch', 'terah', 'benjamin', 'i', 'we', 'ye', 'here', 'neither', 'zebulun', 'who', 'what', 'why', 'thou', 'whither', 'how', 'arise', 'year', 'zerah', 'adah', 'shechem', 'issachar', 'gomorrah', 'truly', 'naphtali', 'japheth', 'menservants', 'spotted', 'rest', 'wept', 'therefore', 'milcah', 'begat', 'lo', 'kissed', 'tamar', 'hagar']
num members:  87
vord count:  4376
top3:  he i it
groupname: he
lesser likely following  : the  1.33% instead of 14.54%
more likely  following  : and 53.88% instead of 14.34%
lesser likely followed by : lord  1.17% instead of 13.90%
more likely  followed by : said 55.69% instead of 11.33%


RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - MarcoP - 21-05-2025

It does look promising. I particularly like that it recognizes the accusative and nominative cases (already better than what Voynich solvers do). The single-word-class for "grew" is interesting, probably worth investigating.

   

RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - davidd - 26-05-2025

the output of the software is now a lot improved, it produces html and svg files.

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RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - Eiríkur - 26-05-2025

(26-05-2025, 08:59 PM)davidd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the output of the software is now a lot improved, it produces html and svg files.

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Incredibly impressive, David. I hope to see your code some day.

RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - MarcoP - 27-05-2025

Hi Davidd,
your results look very readable now, well done! I would only suggest that you sort the members by decreasing frequency, so that the first 3 are the same words as the node labels in the graphs.

RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics. - davidd - 27-05-2025

(27-05-2025, 09:52 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Davidd,
your results look very readable now, well done! I would only suggest that you sort the members by decreasing frequency, so that the first 3 are the same words as the node labels in the graphs.

feature added, new runs

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Edit, i didnt do it in the tooltips when hovering over the picture yet, only in the overview below the picture. will add it to the tooltip also