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+--- Thread: [Article] Pardis Motiee, "First Page of Voynich Manuscript: The Unheard Story" (LingBuzz) (/thread-3479.html)
RE: Pardis Motiee, "First Page of Voynich Manuscript: The Unheard Story" (LingBuzz) - Pardis Motiee - 03-03-2021
(02-03-2021, 04:39 PM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Pardis, welcome to the forum.
I've typed out the EVA to Romanized Farsi equivalences you utilize, to the best of what I can gather:
- a = a
- ch = a
- d = s
- e = t
- f = g
- i = i, y
- in = m
- k = r
- l = t
- m = t
- o = d
- p = p
- q = k
- r = r
- s = h
- sh = j
- t = p
- y = b, o, u, v
I agree with the statement in your paper that these equivalencies need work. Specifically, I am skeptical as to why the writer would use two ways each to write /a/, /p/, and /r/, three ways to write /t/, and no way to write /n/, /l/, or /z/.
One thing I appreciate about your approach, is that it potentially accounts for the linguistically odd patterns of reduplication and quasi-reduplication, and the odd rigid pattern of glyph placement within words. No good explanation for these two features of Voynichese is what damns most attempts at decoding. From what I gather from your work, the repetitiveness is a product of the encoding process involving a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or argot, similar to Verlan in French. It's an interesting idea; language games for the purpose of speaking in code are a worldwide phenomenon and not a new concept. You could strengthen your case a lot by finding historical documentation of a language game used by medieval Farsi speakers that fits the repetition, intercalation, and phoneme-swapping patterns you describe. The problem with this is that language games have always been primarily applied to oral, not written, language. And as such, many if not most language games have gone mostly undocumented in written literature, until the advent of modern linguistics.
Hi and thank you. Yes, like زرگری language. It is not odd to me; again in Farsi script we have 2 letters for t (if we count short and capital letters it would be 3), 3 s ,and 4 z : sound is same but the shapes are different. It also could be a way for Voynich writers to increase decoding difficulties. L exists but I'm not sure of N.
RE: Pardis Motiee, "First Page of Voynich Manuscript: The Unheard Story" (LingBuzz) - -JKP- - 08-03-2021
(03-03-2021, 12:31 AM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
پج -> بج -> بزOne dictionary used the word sheep to explain goat, as well as wild goat . The problem is a person may call toad a frog ,but in biology they have different characteristics . Could writer distinguish You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..and.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. ? The picture looks like a goat and so we can say the animal is a goat then we go to houses and see Capricorn(جدی) is a goat so we can say that's it. But I am not sure if the sea goat would be drawn as a goat. Certainly boz is not an ox. Between remaining Capricorn and Aries I will choose Capricorn. But is drawing clear enough?...
Sheep were occasionally drawn as goats (blog You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and zodiac figures were sometimes out of order (although this is rare), but if we take the order of the VMS zodiac-figures at face value, it would suggest that it's more likely to be an Aries sheep drawn like a goat than to be a goat.
Sea goats were often drawn as Capricorn 4-legged goats, especially in the later Middle Ages, so it doesn't have to be a seagoat to be a zodiac figure.
RE: Pardis Motiee, "First Page of Voynich Manuscript: The Unheard Story" (LingBuzz) - Pardis Motiee - 11-03-2021
Thank you all. For those who see the omissions are not clear, the Figure 1 in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., may be useful. I also like to know if you can find sentences or names in other languages with the patterns & Does anyone see connection of words to Balkan Romani languages?
RE: Pardis Motiee, "First Page of Voynich Manuscript: The Unheard Story" (LingBuzz) - Aga Tentakulus - 11-03-2021
(11-03-2021, 08:29 AM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Does anyone see connection of words to Balkan Romani languages?
Yes, of course, the word Romani already says which language it is based on. ( Latin )
It is also not surprising that some words could apply.
But the VM will certainly not come from this region.
RE: Pardis Motiee, "First Page of Voynich Manuscript: The Unheard Story" (LingBuzz) - -JKP- - 11-03-2021
(11-03-2021, 08:29 AM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thank you all. For those who see the omissions are not clear, the Figure 1 in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., may be useful. I also like to know if you can find sentences or names in other languages with the patterns & Does anyone see connection of words to Balkan Romani languages?
The problem with connecting it directly to any language is the letter positions for each specific VMS glyph. There is a fairly rigid set of rules or conventions (I haven't figured out which).
I notice you eliminated numerous characters to get your results, I'm still not certain how you chose which letters to eliminate (maybe I need to read it again). It is certainly possible that there are nulls, but there has to be some pattern to—the VMS text appears to be structured in a very specific way.
RE: Pardis Motiee, "First Page of Voynich Manuscript: The Unheard Story" (LingBuzz) - Pardis Motiee - 21-03-2021
The rules are that simple if one writes down the pages would naturally get them. I've put them in three different categories to be more understandable. A few languages which the words come from can suggest the origins however I have no records. And I get it as constructed: There are Persian words in a frame of chosen Persian sentence structure, while the Sanskrit words and Arabic terms happen in constant meanings in different parts of manuscript. I am concluding this is more complex than it seems. I am going from phonetics to script and from script to meanings. Not easy as I mentioned for s we have three ways to write ص ث س . also the phonological process must be checked.Like if s changes into sh or if word madhosh (crazy,astonished) changes into madiosh . And only way is guiding words. for example yesterday in last paragraph of the book I got: I found sea of flatting syrups of vine in the oceans. The dark fire-like waterway. I am astonished. I became like a fast running horse and in the way of mountain peak...
I got two words عدو.and دریر. they were neighbors. meaning in dictionary was The running of horse, and Fast running of horse. This is what I call guiding.
But they are extremely weird, we may never use in conversation today. They are important for me since I spend a day on but I chose to share in hope that people would learn and expand, enhance and improve the methods and eventually add one more page, so that I can read the story before being old. Just pick up your pen and try.