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+--- Thread: Vessel linework (/thread-3126.html)
RE: Vessel linework - Mauro - 12-01-2026
(12-01-2026, 11:02 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(IIUC that Italian wine bottle is the origin of "fiasco" in many other languages to mean "total failure". Presumably by some story when someone wanted wine but got only the empty bottle...)
All the best, --stolfi
'Fiasco' means 'total failure' in Italian too (beyond being a bottle with a round bottom and an outside lining of straw), so this is probably the origin of its use in other languages. This use (it seems) comes from theater jargon.
Quote:Etymology
Borrowed from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (“bottle, flask”), from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (“bottle, container”), from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (“bottle, flask”) from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (“bottle”); see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. “Failure” sense comes through You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from Italian theatrical slang You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (literally “to make a bottle”), of uncertain origin; perhaps from an expression fare il fiasco, meaning to play a game with the forfeit that the loser will buy the next bottle or round of drinks.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
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RE: Vessel linework - Aga Tentakulus - 12-01-2026
The straw wrapping is there to prevent the glass bottles in a crate from knocking together and breaking.
Then you'd have a disaster (Fiasko) on your hands.
RE: Vessel linework - Jorge_Stolfi - 12-01-2026
(12-01-2026, 05:21 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The straw wrapping is there to prevent the glass bottles in a crate from knocking together and breaking.
One of the advantages of being an Authority is that you don't need to learn the truth, you just know it. Like "women have fewer teeth and ribs than men". Obviously. No need to ask Mrs. Aristotle to open her mouth and count.
And then I am the one hallucinating...
Then why don't all wine bottles have straw wrapping?
Wouldn't it be easier to just stuff straw between the bottles in the crate, than weave those baskets around them?
All the best, --stolfi
RE: Vessel linework - Mauro - 12-01-2026
(12-01-2026, 05:21 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The straw wrapping is there to prevent the glass bottles in a crate from knocking together and breaking.
Then you'd have a disaster (Fiasko) on your hands.
Hehe, yeah, it's a nice idea.
The main function of the straw wrapping is to give the flask a flat base so it can stand upright. Of course it also gives a degree of protection to the glass bottle, expecially to the base.
RE: Vessel linework - Koen G - 13-01-2026
Let's not turn this thread into a fiasco
RE: Vessel linework - Aga Tentakulus - 13-01-2026
(12-01-2026, 06:35 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wouldn't it be easier to just stuff straw between the bottles in the crate, than weave those baskets around them?
For this reason, the boxes now have compartments.
RE: Vessel linework - Aga Tentakulus - 13-01-2026
The straw cover is the cheap version of a basket bottle.
Woven around the glass to protect the contents from knocks.
RE: Vessel linework - Jorge_Stolfi - 14-01-2026
(13-01-2026, 11:42 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The straw cover is the cheap version of a basket bottle. Woven around the glass to protect the contents from knocks.
Sigh.
For the large "damigianas" the wicker basket indeed has that function (because those large heavy bottles are more subject to breaking). But also to provide a rough surface with better grip, and handles for easy lifting and pouring.
(When I was a kid my father still bought wine in those containers. From vineyards in the South of Brazil, mostly by immigrants from Veneto, like him. Now only You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and they are already You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....)
But as for the Chianti fiasco: again, why don't all wine bottles have that straw basket?
And why did you have to post an AI image? Because you could not find one showing those two kinds of baskets together, that did not make it obvious that they are two very different things?
All the best, --stolfi
RE: Vessel linework - Bluetoes101 - 14-01-2026
(12-01-2026, 09:36 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-01-2026, 03:25 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For example The tripod ones may be like the top right example, with the bottom example feet.
The Etrurians made bronze cistae which are also cylinders with three feet. Bonus point, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is inscribed with a single word (Suthina). As far as I know, the cista shape was not transmitted to the middle ages and was rediscovered by archeologists much later, so I doubt there can be any actual relationship. It's probably just a simple way to create a container, a cylinder is possibly the most obvious shape and three feet are guaranteed to all touch the ground even if they are not perfectly aligned.
These are actually on my list of "thingys" I've been considering!
This is the one I snipped. In isolation its not too convincing visually and also your comments, though I do like that they are usually depicted with scent bottles.
Some other bonus thingys..
Chinese "granary jar"
The one I like the most but have had trouble finding a good examples of more plain versions. Italian perfume burner (1530), obviously it has a lot of differences, but I like the dimensions and each part of it makes up something simular once you strip away all the fancy, also the holes which the VMS drawing may or may not have, but its possible. Even with having the physical objects in hand though its hard to determine the use of vessels like this, you have the see inside it and make a best guess usually (like how deep is the dish inside, is it better suited for incense or perfume?).
To touch on Koen's comment about amount of feet, personally I believe they were trying to do it like my drawing on the left but just couldn't do it very well, as noted by the front foot that is sideways, they didn't get how to do "3d" like this, and also "going towards you", at least how we would draw it now. Personally my theory atm is there are 3 feet and they are metal. You can see pottery like this, but its really not common at all, the ends would be really prone to just breaking off.
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RE: Vessel linework - Aga Tentakulus - 14-01-2026
I think Chianti still has it as a trademark today, similar to the shape of a Coca Cola bottle.
I didn't notice that it was AI. The main thing is that everyone is there.