(30-10-2024, 05:38 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Barbrey: Here are a few interesting aspects on the representation of hermaphrodites in alchemy ( reference to your post #233 ). I translated the paper from German to English using Deepl ( so it's not perfect but good enough ) :



ACHIM AURNHAMMER, The hermaphrodite in the symbolic art of the alchemists

(30-10-2024, 06:28 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(30-10-2024, 04:52 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi nablator!  You have to remember that the Book of the Holy Trinity seems to have about 20 different versions - I try if I can to use the earliest, the Munich version, which Barbara Obrist dated to 1420.

BSB Cgm 598 I suppose? There are several pictures of the hermaphrodite+dragon from various mss. of the Book of the Holy Trinity in Barbara Obrist's book Les débuts de l’imagerie alchimique but not from this one. In which book/article did you find the 1420 date? If it is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., it is the Nürnberg ms. 80061 that is dated 1420 so it is the earlier one maybe. It is the one that I linked in my post.

On the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. they date the Munich ms. to the second half of the 14th century.

Quote:[...] Munich BSB, cgm. 598, which can be dated after 1467

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On the Wikimedia page that displays the double-headed androgyne + dragon, 1417 (no other source has the 1417 date, so it is probably an error). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:Nevertheless, in the Munich version, the dragon is green, as are most subsequent dragons going forward.

The dragons are very similar (because one ms. is a copy of the other) and only the wing is green on these pages:




Am I looking at the wrong pages or the wrong manuscript?

Quote:Adam McLean calls this one the Luciferic hermaphrodite and it has different properties, and that’s indeed a green wing.

"Hermaphrodite" and "androgyne" are not good descriptions of what actually looks like conjoined twins in the Aurora consurgens and a crowned two-headed monster with wings (therefore "Luciferian") in the Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit.

(30-10-2024, 06:56 PM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is alchemy in Voynich Science Manuscript. 
The author, being a healer, needed medications. He used not only the plants as it is in the first part, but also created some. And he created some, according his knowledge and training.
Actually I cannot understand the blog of being deprived of  Alchemy section. 
The ancient alchemy is the today's pharmacy, chemistry, astrology, paintings colours, mining, cooking, metallurgy  etc. 
In other words: I respect Alchemy and do not denigrate it, as being ironized by our generation and its scientists.
Also there are proofs from the text too.
 If one looks at 67 v1,2, what is your impression? 
Complete process of chemistry, isn't it? There are other examples too as above mentioned.
BR

(30-10-2024, 08:09 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(28-10-2024, 09:53 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don’t remember, R. Sale, and the free copy of the article I found has been taken down. It’s $40 on Brill (which my small college’s library does not have access to).

Which article are you referring to?

Variously colored dragons in the Book of the Holy Trinity:
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Quote:Let us first look at the Antichrist, Diabolic or Luciferic hermaphrodite, and we will here use the illuminated image from possibly the earliest version that in Nürnberg, Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Hs. 80061, dated to 1420 by the scholar Barbara Obrist, and on the right that of the beautifully illuminated manuscript in Munich which is some fifty years later. The figure is entitled 'Contra justiciam' (against justice).

Cutest little monster ever to replace the dragon (not green, with two heads and lion's legs) (1517)
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So identifying the green pool that is not shaped like a dragon with a dragon/monster that is not generally green is a bit risky.

(30-10-2024, 08:40 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My favorite dragon (if you can even call it that).

(30-10-2024, 09:35 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Manchester, John Rylands University Library, German. MS 1, late 15th c.

(30-10-2024, 08:09 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(28-10-2024, 09:53 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don’t remember, R. Sale, and the free copy of the article I found has been taken down. It’s $40 on Brill (which my small college’s library does not have access to).

Which article are you referring to?

Variously colored dragons in the Book of the Holy Trinity:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:Let us first look at the Antichrist, Diabolic or Luciferic hermaphrodite, and we will here use the illuminated image from possibly the earliest version that in Nürnberg, Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Hs. 80061, dated to 1420 by the scholar Barbara Obrist, and on the right that of the beautifully illuminated manuscript in Munich which is some fifty years later. The figure is entitled 'Contra justiciam' (against justice).

Cutest little monster ever to replace the dragon (not green, with two heads and lion's legs) (1517)
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So identifying the green pool that is not shaped like a dragon with a dragon/monster that is not generally green is a bit risky.

(30-10-2024, 08:40 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My favorite dragon (if you can even call it that).

(30-10-2024, 05:33 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These last few posts caught my eye, so i will cheekily add my two penn'orth.
1. Alchemical allegories and symbolism were always deliberately a bit vague / obscure / ambiguous.
2. Chemical reactions can be greatly affected by even small amount of impurities and back then i imagine having pure reagents was not so simple.

In this link the author suggests that,
 "a green dragon devouring the Sun means that the gold was dissolved in aqua regia"..."the gold probably contained copper, which turns the acid blue-green"
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In this short  video "Gold Chemistry: Gold in Aqua Regia"[ 41s ]  by "Colorful Chemistry" . YT link -> You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
the green color of the solution can be seen, and a chemical explanation is in the video description, ( copper impurites in gold foil are suggested ).

Whilst here on the alchemy website animal symbolism page ->https://alchemywebsite.com/animal.html
we are informed that  "Green Lion was usually a name for vitriol",   but also that   "The Green Lion devouring the sun ...can be thought of as aqua regia dissolving the solar gold
There are also the 2 meanings of "green lion" that the vegetable matter alchemists use , 'plant sap' is one, 'the raw energy of nature' is the other (see alchemywebsite link).

(30-10-2024, 05:04 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I’ve seen speculation regarding the green lion and dragon being conflated, but no confirmation, and to my mind they are almost opposite in idea.

Quote:In the Name of Christ then, take a great quantity of the strongest Vi∣negar diligently distilled through an Alembick, in which dissolve a good quantity of the Green Lyon, being dissolved, distil through a Filtre, and keep it in Glass Cucurbits well stopp'd: If any re∣markable part of the Lyon remains undissolved, dissolve it with the aforesaid Vinegar, and distil through a Filtre, and being dis∣solved, joyn it with the other Waters before reserved in the Cucurbits, then take the reserved Waters (dissolutions) and distil them all in Balneo Mariae, applying Alembicks to them well luted, that the Cucurbits may not respire, put Fire under, and receive all the Waters, which will be distilled, but have a care that the dissolved Lyon be not altogether congealed in the Cucur∣bits, but that it may remain liquid or soft; then take all the Cu∣curbits, and put all that is in them into one Cucurbit, which lute well with its Alembick, and put it in a Furnace of Ashes, as is fitting, and put a gentle Fire under, because of the temper of the Glass, and because of the Heterogeneous moisture, which is in the Lyon to be rooted out: And take notice, that must be always done with a gentle Fire, but when the Heterogeneous moisture is gone over, strengthen the Fire by little and little, and have an Eye continually to the Beak of the Alembick, if a red Liquor begins to go over, but if it does not yet go over, con∣tinue the aforesaid Fire till it doth; but when you see the red Li∣quor distil, change the Receiver forthwith, and lute it well to the Beak of the Alembick, and then strengthen the Fire, and you will have the Blood of the Lyon exceeding red, containing the four Elements, very odoriferous and fragrant (after due putre∣faction) keep it therefore in a good Phial well stopp'd: Then take the Blood, and put it in a Phial close stopp'd to putrefie and digest, in hot Dung, changing the Dung every five Days, there to be digested for the space of fifteen or sixteen Days, and this is done, that the Elementary parts may be dissolved, and be fitter to be divided into the four Elements, and that by distillation; being putrify'd fifteen or sixteen Days, take it out, and put it into a sit Cucurbit, to be distilled with a gentle Fire in Balneo Mariae;

Quote:First take 30 pound weight of Sericon or Antimony, which will make 21 pound weight of Gum, or near thereabouts, if it be well dissolved, and the Vinegar very good, and dissolve each pound thereof in a Gallon of twice distilled Vinegar when cold again, and as it standeth in Dissolution in a fit Glass Vessel, stirr it about with a clean Stick very often every day, the oftner the better, and when it is well moulten to the bottom, then filter over the said Liquors three several times, which keep close covered, and cast away the Feces, for that is superfluous filth which must be removed, and entreth not into the Work but is called Terra damnata.

The making of our Gum or green Lyon.

Then put all these cold Liquors thus filtered into a fit Glass Vessel, and set it into Balneo Mariae to evaporate in a temperate heat, which done our Sericon will be coagulated into a green Gum called our green Lyon, which Gum dry well, yet beware thou burn not his Flowers not destroy his greeness.

The Extraction of our Menstue, or blood of our green Lyon.

Then take out the said Gum, and put it into a strong Retort of Glass very well Luted, and place it in your Furnace, and under that at the first, make sober Fire, and anon you shall see a faint Water issue forth, let it waste away; but when you see a white Smoak or fume issue forth, then put too a Receiver of Glass, which must have a very large Belly, and the mouth no wider then it may well receive into that the Neck of the Retort, which close well together that no fume issue forth of the Receiver. Then encrease your Fire by little and little till the fume which issueth be reddish, then continue the greater Fire, until drops like blood come forth, and no more fume will issue forth, and when that leaveth bleeding let it cool or asswage the Fire by little and little, and when all things are cold, then take away the Receiver, and close it fast suddenly, that the Spirits vanish not away, for this Liquor is called, our blessed Liquor, which Liquor keep close stopped in a Glass till hereafter. Then look into the Neck of the Retort, and therein you shall find a white hard Ryme as it were the Congelation of a Frosty vapour or much like sublimate, which gather with diligence and keep it apart, for therein are contained great Secrets which shall be shewed hereafter, after the great Work is ended.

Quote:One basic recipe for the vegetable stone, found in hundreds of permutations in alchemical literature, employs a metallic body called ‘sericon’ as its prime matter: usually taken to denote minium (red lead). The minium is dissolved in strong wine vinegar, and the resulting solution heated until a thick gum remains in the bottom of the glass.10 When distilled, the gum yields a white vapour, the fumus albus, which is collected in a receiver and condensed to form a liquid, which is then subjected to further procedures. Owing to the circumstances of its manufacture, the vegetable stone was regarded as combining both mineral and vegetable qualities. In this form, it was regarded as a safe and legitimate product for human consumption, and therefore provided one basis for the medicinal aurum potabile—an objective which cannot have been assisted, in practice, by the use of toxic lead compounds.

I have elsewhere described this lead-and-vinegar method as ‘sericonian’, to distinguish it from approaches based on different ingredients and processes (Rampling, 2010, pp. 128–129). In England, this approach was commonly associated with the figure of George Ripley, a canon-regular of the Augustinian priory at Bridlington in East Yorkshire who flourished in the 1470s, as attested by the colophons of his best known works, the Compound of alchemy (1471) and Medulla alchimiae (1476).11 In the Medulla, for instance, Ripley gave instructions for the manufacture of the vegetable stone from sericon, and its subsequent combination with the mineral ‘fire against nature’ (a corrosive mixture of cinnabar, vitriol and saltpetre) to produce a powerful transmutational elixir—the aqua composita, or compound water (Ripley, 1649, pp. 143–145, 170–172).

10. The gum is sugar of lead, or, in modern parlance, lead acetate. In some cases ‘sericon’ is interpreted as verdigris, or copper acetate. In texts from the mid-sixteenth century onwards, it is often reinterpreted as antimony (Rampling, 2009, chap. 4).

Quote:Based on his close reading of Raymond’s Epistola accurtationis, Ripley’s Medulla, and
other sericonian authorities, Norton offers Elizabeth I his interpretation of the cover
names applied to successive stages of the vegetable stone’s manufacture. From lead
is made first adrop (minium), then sericon or the green lion (the gum made from min-
ium), menstruum (an oil drawn from the gum), and finally the blood of the green lion
(a menstruum made from the oil).68 The result is a complex and nuanced reading of
the various terms employed in sericonian practice—Norton’s only innovation being
to recast sericon as the gum (sugar of lead) rather than minium itself. Several decades
later, in 1599, Norton would record these steps in a handsome “tabula,” printed in
1630: a tree that sprouts, appropriately enough, from the body of the red toad (Bufo
rubea), which signifies lead (Saturnus plumbum; fig. 1).