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+--- Thread: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS (/thread-1745.html)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - MarcoP - 12-06-2023
Hi Matthias,
I haven't read the text, but I think they are not literal "flowers". Here "flower" means "the best part of something".
Similar titles are "flores sapientiae" (the flowers of wisdom), "flores eloquentiae" (the flowers of eloquence), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the flowers of history).
EDIT: "Flores Secretorum de regimine quatuor naturarum" means something like "the best secrets about the properties of the four humors".
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 12-06-2023
(12-06-2023, 09:39 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here "flower" means "the best part of something".
Aah, I see, too bad. I thought it was a Rasis-writing about alchemical plants.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - R. Sale - 12-06-2023
"Flores Secretorum de regimine quatuor naturarum" google trans to 'Secret Flowers of the government of the four natures'. So, it is probably something related to the four elements, four humors, tradition in medieval ideology.
'Flores secretorum' is not really secret flowers. Better is "Flowers of secrets" - where 'flowers' might be interpreted as "selected information" regarding the secrets.
Edit: Too slow.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 13-06-2023
When categorizing the blue and green liquid in the depictions on Quire 13, I noticed that they are always shown strictly separated. On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , however, it is noticeable that the nymphs in the green "pools" have been overdrawn with rough strokes in blue. One could assume that some kind of mixture of colors / fluids is to be indicated here. The "tubes" are filled with blue in both cases.
In case the conclusion from the observation is correct, then this strengthens the assumption that here altogether a (still to be defined) process is represented.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - nablator - 13-06-2023
(13-06-2023, 02:15 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In case the conclusion from the observation is correct, then this strengthens the assumption that here altogether a (still to be defined) process is represented.There is a way to reorder folios so that all green pools are together, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are the facing center pages (as suggested by Nick Pelling) and the number of bathing nymphs is increasing to show (maybe) the steps of a process:
f76
f79 (2)
f82 (14)
f75 (24)
f78 (24)
f81 (29)
f84 (48)
f77
f80
f83
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 13-06-2023
(13-06-2023, 03:20 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is a way to reorder folios so that all green pools are together, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are the facing center pages (as suggested by Nick Pelling) and the number of bathing nymphs is increasing to show (maybe) the steps of a process
The idea of re-sorting the folios seems reasonable. However, I would not assume that the number of nymphs has to increase steadily. Rather I would assume that it goes something like: "add x, extract y, add z again" etc. . Whether it could be in principle repetitive or one processes ( with a beginning and an end ) would be to be checked.
I wish there was a schematic diagram of the production of aqua vitae on the net. Unfortunately, only illustrations of the individual apparatus are offered ( e.g. in the works of Hieronymus Brunschwig, Philipp Ulstad etc. ).
I mean something better then this
Reconstruction of a distillation furnace from excavated brick fragments, vessels and plugs, Museum der Alchemist, Kirchberg am Wagram, Austria (photo: M. Martinón-Torres)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - nablator - 13-06-2023
(12-06-2023, 09:45 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Aah, I see, too bad. I thought it was a Rasis-writing about alchemical plants.
Look at pages 6-10 of Corpus Christi College MS 099, on top: "Planta arborem". Someone was pushing the metaphor too far.
And why arborem (accusative) ? So many mysteries.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 13-06-2023
It is page 14 to 18 ( with blank pages counted ),isn't it ? "Planta arborem" means "Plant a tree" according to my translator. This time I will not fall for the headline
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - nablator - 13-06-2023
(13-06-2023, 06:21 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is page 14 to 18 ( with blank pages counted ),isn't it ? "Planta arborem" means "Plant a tree" according to my translator. This time I will not fall for the headlineYes. I assumed Google had the wrong translation but it is correct, imperative and accusative.
Incipit tractatus qui dicitur planta arborem.
Planta arborem et edifica sibi domum rotundum, hoc est dicere habeas mercurium preparatum
in vase vitrio rotundo positum, et pone in eo hominem centum annorum id est solem puris
simum foliatum vel limatum, et ille senex non cessabit comedere de fructu illius
arbus.
The round house is the (brick) athanor, obviously.
A few other manuscripts in the Thorndike-Kibre catalogue of incipits:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
A similar metaphor in the Turba philosophorum:
Accipe illam albam arborem et aedifica ei domum circumdantem...
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 13-06-2023
(13-06-2023, 07:05 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Incipit tractatus qui dicitur planta arborem.
Planta arborem et edifica sibi domum rotundum, hoc est dicere habeas mercurium preparatum
in vase vitrio rotundo positum, et pone in eo hominem centum annorum id est solem puris
simum foliatum vel limatum, et ille senex non cessabit comedere de fructu illius
arbus.
My interpretation ( without research ):
Mercury ( moon, female ) and sulfur ( sun, male ) are starting materials for the great work. At least mercury is clearly mentioned. With the hundred-year-old man who is put in I am still at the puzzle. However, since he is called the (pure) sun, it should be sulfur. So it is the beginning of the process. Salt does not have to be present in older interpretations ( before Paracelsus ).