+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html)
+--- Thread: Rosettes and Astrology (/thread-6030.html)
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - ololololo - 20-08-2026
To be honest, I didn’t know about almanacs of this kind. Or rather, I didn’t think they could be used in this way.
Here’s what I found from the Wikipedia article:
The prevenance of these folded almanacs among medieval medical practitioners and the basic medical knowledge contained inside surviving folding almanacs indicatedthat's while the astrological and medical tools within were devised by highly educated, probably university trained scholars, most users of folding almanacs had far less training and education.
It seemed to me that this fit quite well with VMS. In that case, its author could have been an ordinary doctor who wanted to make some money.
But in the form you’re describing, VMS couldn’t have been used. First, most plants have no real‑life counterparts, and the supposed quack doctor could at most surprise his patients with these drawings. Second, if everything in VMS is completely meaningless, then it’s unclear how he used it. And thirdly, there is a possibility that after the author’s death or the completion of the book, it immediately set off on a journey across Europe, making a detour from Northern Italy through Northern France to Prague. The only explanation for this, in my view, is that the book was sold or given away.
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - Rafal - 20-08-2026
Quote:First, most plants have no real‑life counterparts, and the supposed quack doctor could at most surprise his patients with these drawings. Second, if everything in VMS is completely meaningless, then it’s unclear how he used it.
For me it's rather simple.
A woman comes to the charlatan. She says she suffers from, let's say, painful menstruation.
And then he says something like:
"Menstruation you say? Let me think"
He makes a very clever face expression and starts browsing the folios with plants. Then he stops at one folio.
"Oh, this one should work. You have come to the right man, my dear lady. I have a great remedy. It's Florabundus Absurdus. It is a very rare flower, it grows only in Getshemane garden in Jerusalem when our Lord Jesus prayed before His crucifixion. It blooms only on the day of the Lord's resurrection. But by chance I happen to have this miraculous ointment made from its petals which is great for menstruation. And for you I have a special discount price..."
Any charlatan must be good at talking. So our man will be able to make hundreds of similar stories on the fly.
Each time when a sick man comes to him, he will have a perfect remedy for his problems. He will browse plants, consult recipes and astrological charts and pretend that he is reading the manuscript written in some occult language. But he will be just faking it and telling people exactly what they want to hear.
----------------
By the way, a wandering charlatan theory may explain why the last page probably contains some charm with German vibe (pox leber) while the month names under Zodiac signs are written in some variant of French or Occitan.
The charm could be written for some client on a marketplace in a German town. Then our charlatan moved to France where he lost his almanac. Some local man who got it tried to understand it and started with signing the Zodiac signs in French.
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - ololololo - 20-08-2026
The only question that remains is how the text was written.
But it’s better to discuss this in another thread...
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - Bernd - 20-08-2026
(20-08-2026, 12:10 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:First, most plants have no real‑life counterparts, and the supposed quack doctor could at most surprise his patients with these drawings. Second, if everything in VMS is completely meaningless, then it’s unclear how he used it.
For me it's rather simple.
A woman comes to the charlatan. She says she suffers from, let's say, painful menstruation.
And then he says something like:
"Menstruation you say? Let me think"
He makes a very clever face expression and starts browsing the folios with plants. Then he stops at one folio.
"Oh, this one should work. You have come to the right man, my dear lady. I have a great remedy. It's Florabundus Absurdus. It is a very rare flower, it grows only in Getshemane garden in Jerusalem when our Lord Jesus prayed before His crucifixion. It blooms only on the day of the Lord's resurrection. But by chance I happen to have this miraculous ointment made from its petals which is great for menstruation. And for you I have a special discount price..."
Any charlatan must be good at talking. So our man will be able to make hundreds of similar stories on the fly.
Each time when a sick man comes to him, he will have a perfect remedy for his problems. He will browse plants, consult recipes and astrological charts and pretend that he is reading the manuscript written in some occult language. But he will be just faking it and telling people exactly what they want to hear.
----------------
By the way, a wandering charlatan theory may explain why the last page probably contains some charm with German vibe (pox leber) while the month names under Zodiac signs are written in some variant of French or Occitan.
The charm could be written for some client on a marketplace in a German town. Then our charlatan moved to France where he lost his almanac. Some local man who got it tried to understand it and started with signing the Zodiac signs in French.
I don't think the charlatan prop book / almanac hypothesis is plausible. The VM contains an almost fractal level of details. It is unnecessarily complex in order to fool others who'd only see the contrents from afar, both in imagery and text. Why compile such a paracosm from a multitude of sources in such a weird way? On top if that, look at the drawings. Would you consult a doctor that's working with a book with this sort of imagery? That's nothing you'd show around in a 15th century marketplace without getting yourself into serious trouble. If anything, it may have been something to fool very wealthy and influential people - in private. But I also don't believe that. It may very well be that the VM is some sort of 'imitation' of real manuscripts the author had seen, but I think it was more something of a personal art project, not meant to be read by or shown to others - or to fool them.
In any case, I think we can agree that the author cobbled together the imagery from a multitude of sources he'd come across, and re-used the elements he liked within the VM. I think this is also compatible with the idea that the author was building some sort of personal fantasy world in which the drawings may or may not have held allegorical meaning for their creator.
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - JustAnotherTheory - 20-08-2026
Rafal ' Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For me it's rather simple.
I think this is plausible. The only issue is, history would have recorded such a miracle apothecary, with a strange magic book. Yet we have no such description of anyone.
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - Rafal - 20-08-2026
Quote:In any case, I think we can agree that the author cobbled together the imagery from a multitude of sources he'd come across, and re-used the elements he liked within the VM. I think this is also compatible with the idea that the author was building some sort of personal fantasy world in which the drawings may or may not have held allegorical meaning for their creator.
Yes, I would agree about the composite structure of the imagery.
I personally considered "fantasy world" option, thought if the author could be a mentally ill person or just some medieval autistic kid living in his personal dream world.
For me the biggest problem with this concept is that VM seems to have several scribes. It seems to exclude the idea of a single, crazy guy. One man may be chasing his dreams, a group of men working together in a coordinated way should be in theory more practical and rational.
Unless they are hired by a rich dreamer
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - Jorge_Stolfi - 21-08-2026
(20-08-2026, 10:12 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think this is plausible. The only issue is, history would have recorded such a miracle apothecary, with a strange magic book. Yet we have no such description of anyone.
At any moment in the past there must have been tens (hundreds?) of thousands of such swindlers. In fact, every physician in the Middle Ages was necessarily a fraud 90% of the time. Prescribing bloodletting for anemia, mercury as elixir of long life, etc.
And the same for many priests of all faiths -- only with amulets, relics, and prayers rather than medicines.
Even today. Check the TV or YouTube for plentiful examples.
For most patients the remedy or prayer would not help, or make things worse. Those failures would of course be blamed on the disease itself. But some patients would become healthy again, independently (or in spite of) the remedy or prayer. Then the healer would of course claim the merit for that. Payments and donations from those few patients would still make the job profitable.
Only very few of those charlatans were recorded in history -- not for their miraculous cures, but for being associated with kings and other famous people, or for having written books.
All the best, --stolfi
(I read somewhere that sometime in China patients paid their doctors only while they were healthy, not when they were sick. And I read somewhere that in some parts of Western Eurasia patients pay their doctors all the time, whether they are healthy or sick. Even the latter policy seem to be smarter than paying your doctor only when you are sick. But I am a dumb cynical socialist, what do I know...)
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - ololololo - 21-08-2026
(21-08-2026, 05:27 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some people believed their own lies, while others deliberately wanted to deceive, so there is a difference...(20-08-2026, 10:12 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think this is plausible. The only issue is, history would have recorded such a miracle apothecary, with a strange magic book. Yet we have no such description of anyone.
At any moment in the past there must have been tens (hundreds?) of thousands of such swindlers. In fact, every physician in the Middle Ages was necessarily a fraud 90% of the time. Prescribing bloodletting for anemia, mercury as elixir of long life, etc.
And the same for many priests of all faiths -- only with amulets, relics, and prayers rather than medicines.
Even today. Check the TV or YouTube for plentiful examples.
For most patients the remedy or prayer would not help, or make things worse. Those failures would of course be blamed on the disease itself. But some patients would become healthy again, independently (or in spite of) the remedy or prayer. Then the healer would of course claim the merit for that. Payments and donations from those few patients would still make the job profitable.
Only very few of those charlatans were recorded in history -- not for their miraculous cures, but for being associated with kings and other famous people, or for having written books.
All the best, --stolfi
(I read somewhere that sometime in China patients paid their doctors only while they were healthy, not when they were sick. And I read somewhere that in some parts of Western Eurasia patients pay their doctors all the time, whether they are healthy or sick. Even the latter policy seem to be smarter than paying your doctor only when you are sick. But I am a dumb cynical socialist, what do I know...)
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - ololololo - 21-08-2026
(20-08-2026, 10:12 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is quite easy, given that this document stands out from other quackish tricks. Well, and it could also be sold at a profit, so apparently that was another reason why VMS could be preserved.Rafal ' Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For me it's rather simple.
I think this is plausible. The only issue is, history would have recorded such a miracle apothecary, with a strange magic book. Yet we have no such description of anyone.
RE: Rosettes and Astrology - Rafal - 21-08-2026
Quote:This is quite easy, given that this document stands out from other quackish tricks.
I would risk saying that if Voynich Manuscript is a medieval gibberish hoax, then it is probably the best of medieval gibberish hoaxes.
It could be also the best (in term of mimicking real object) but at the same quite inefficient - the cost of production was too high compared to the income. So people didn't do similar things in history.
Other similar hoaxes, if ever existed, were probably recognized. And medieval people didn't collect wrongful books for future generations. They just burnt them.
Also remember that on the other hand we know about very original, creative and quite unique hoaxes. The lack of similar cases doesn't mean that they didn't happen.
See for example:
Great Diamond Hoax You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Captain of Köpenick You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Cardiff Giant You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Poyais fictious country You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.