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+--- Thread: writing differences that I noticed (/thread-5973.html)
RE: writing differences that I noticed - Jorge_Stolfi - 28-07-2026
(28-07-2026, 12:37 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To positively demonstrate retouching/retracing one needs to show obvious parts of underlying strokes, as clearly seen in my examples above.
Unfortunately that will be hard to do, if one must assume magic inks and quills that can suddenly switch between very different traces and colors, or put down a trace of one color with an band of a different color along one edge...
Quote:Especially considering we have multispectral images now for a few folios
.. which show how those magic inks and quills can do their magic in multiple wavelengths of light...
All the best, nonetheless, --stolfi
RE: writing differences that I noticed - NineofTails - 28-07-2026
If you look at the High res of image id:1006091, you will notice that on the second line near the right side of the page, the writing starts off faint, and slowly gets darker then fades again. The only way that would logically be possible is if it is actually a key to a cypher of some kind, or a way to identify the lines themselves. Also, only certain letters/symbols are darkened. I am no expert, but that seems like the darkened symbols/letters are intentional. I attached the exact screenshots of what I mean.
RE: writing differences that I noticed - ololololo - 28-07-2026
(28-07-2026, 03:51 PM)NineofTails Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The only way that would logically be possible is if it is actually a key to a cypher of some kind, or a way to identify the lines themselves.Or they were very difficult to see, which is why they were outlined
The reason could also be a malfunction of the pen - it could pour ink "quickly", which made the first strokes very bold, while the rest were duller. At least, that's what happened with my iron pen.
RE: writing differences that I noticed - oshfdk - 28-07-2026
(28-07-2026, 03:51 PM)NineofTails Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I do not really know how to provide the proof of what I am talking about, but if you look at the High res of image id:1006091, you will notice that on the second line near the right side of the page, the writing starts off faint, and slowly gets darker then fades again. The only way that would logically be possible is if it is actually a key to a cypher of some kind, or a way to identify the lines themselves. Also, only certain letters/symbols are darkened. I am no expert, but that seems like the darkened symbols/letters are intentional.
I'm not sure which piece you are talking about. Could you maybe use some of the tools mentioned in this thread to show us: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Generally ink would gradually get fainter between the refills of the quill. Also, it's possible that dark ink is intentional, I think this has been discussed before.
(28-07-2026, 03:51 PM)NineofTails Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The only way that would logically be possible
I'd say that the complex relationships of the quill, the ink and the style of writing can produce all sorts of strange behavior, so certainly there is more than one logical possibility.
RE: writing differences that I noticed - NineofTails - 28-07-2026
(28-07-2026, 04:05 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-07-2026, 03:51 PM)NineofTails Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The only way that would logically be possible is if it is actually a key to a cypher of some kind, or a way to identify the lines themselves.Or they were very difficult to see, which is why they were outlined
The reason could also be a malfunction of the pen - it could pour ink "quickly", which made the first strokes very bold, while the rest were duller. At least, that's what happened with my iron pen.
But if you consider the time frame of the supposed writing of the document, would that not mean they were using quill-based pens?
RE: writing differences that I noticed - ololololo - 28-07-2026
(28-07-2026, 04:08 PM)NineofTails Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There's not much of a difference.(28-07-2026, 04:05 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-07-2026, 03:51 PM)NineofTails Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The only way that would logically be possible is if it is actually a key to a cypher of some kind, or a way to identify the lines themselves.Or they were very difficult to see, which is why they were outlined
The reason could also be a malfunction of the pen - it could pour ink "quickly", which made the first strokes very bold, while the rest were duller. At least, that's what happened with my iron pen.
But if you consider the time frame of the supposed writing of the document, would that not mean they were using quill-based pens?
If anything, I'm not talking about a fountain pen, but an iron pen that needs to be constantly dipped in an inkwell. In other words, its principle of operation is almost the same.
RE: writing differences that I noticed - ololololo - 06-08-2026
A similar phenomenon. f96v. The black arrows indicate darker ink, while the orange arrows indicate “lightening” ink.
RE: writing differences that I noticed - nablator - 06-08-2026
(06-08-2026, 02:17 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A similar phenomenon. f96v. The black arrows indicate darker ink, while the orange arrows indicate “lightening” ink.
Ink darkness variation and ink blots in loops are not unusual.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(28-07-2026, 02:26 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.if one must assume magic inks and quills that can suddenly switch between very different traces and colors
RE: writing differences that I noticed - ololololo - 06-08-2026
(06-08-2026, 03:21 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ink darkness variation and ink blots in loops are not unusual.I know this is for the author of the post
RE: writing differences that I noticed - Jorge_Stolfi - 06-08-2026
(06-08-2026, 03:21 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ink darkness variation and ink blots in loops are not unusual.
Sigh.
Yes, I am well acquainted with variations due to ink dynamics. But it is a gross mistake to assume that every variation of trace weight and ink color is due to it. Like claiming that any inconsistency in colors or brush strokes in a fresco fresco or oil painting is due to bad brushes and improperly mixed paints. Do people here believe this is the case too?
There are unambiguous examples of retracing in old manuscripts. Just like there are tons of examples of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that were restored, with varying levels of skill.
To ascribe to ink dynamics all ink and trace variations in the VMS, in particular, requires some truly magical inks and pens -- which maintained their magic powers all through the book...
All the best, --stolfi