+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Theories & Solutions (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-58.html)
+--- Thread: Paracelsian spagyric medicine (/thread-5749.html)
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - pmw57 - 18-05-2026
(17-05-2026, 01:45 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are unable to say anything else. There are 20 letters so there will be the same 20 words again and again over 200 pages of manuscript.
Thank you for bringing that up, for from the adjustments to the transliteration that I made above, I'm getting a rock-solid translation of the following for the first paragraph of f99r.
English translation: The mixture is softened and oiled in the bath, then strain it into the water bath for the plant tops; at the proper readiness of the oil, the cooked tops are submerged, continually oiling them gradually. Once brought to a thinned-out readiness, the prepared body. yes the prepared body, is adapted to it; managing the linens appropriately for it, by means of the oil at this state of readiness, use the linens to strain the liquid during the cooking down. Pour the raw material into a glass vessel with hot water, keeping it lubricated with oil under the heat of the cooking; by this stage, the substance must be regulated to temper the worked mass. To obtain the finished product, strain it when the linens are brought to readiness, sealing the deep basin containing the strained batch with wax in the oiled water bath, completing the final poured reduction within the bath.
Now to not to draw the ire against AI assistance and to help act as separate verification, I am keeping separate my process of going from themy modified AVA transliteration of abbreviated Italian into expanded Italian, which resulted in the above English prose. That way a separate verification may chance to occur.
I am working on supplying the transliterated paragragh to multiple different sources, including manuscript experts local to me to find out if the same English translation is gained from them.
It's not confirmation yet, that would be a long way off. I think though that after bringing transliteration efforts into alignment with the adjustments in a previous post, we look to be in a good place for the transliteration to act as a good starting point.
Mods, please let me know if this post breaches anything and I'll be sure to update it to suit.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - ReneZ - 18-05-2026
It would have been more interesting to have your 'expanded Italian' version.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - pmw57 - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 04:02 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It would have been more interesting to have your 'expanded Italian' version.
Yes I know it would.
I'd like clarification from any mods here if they may allow me to do that, as the expanded Italian is with the assistance of AI doing some heavy lifting.
Right now I'm keeping the expanded Italian (called Diplomatic Italian as it shows missing letters in square brackets) out play from reasonable concern.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - igajkgko - 18-05-2026
I'm reminded of an old cultural reference / meme of some vintage..
1. Transliterate the text
2. Throw it into an LLM
3. ???
4. PROFIT! "rock-solid translation" into English
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - pmw57 - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 06:40 AM)igajkgko Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.4. PROFIT! "rock-solid translation" into English
If I wanted to profit I would not be revealing the keys to the kingdom, here or otherwise.
I’ve adjusted EVA and AVA transliteration and come up with a grounded theory that looks to be highly successful.
I have no interest in translating the whole thing personally.
On my success I realised that this exploration is far too big to keep to myself.
My objective here is to pass this info along to others, so that further progress may be made.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - ReneZ - 18-05-2026
When you show a picture to an AI, it can tell you what is in it, and it will essentially always give the right answer.
However, it is incapable of telling you how it knew.
Same with your result. You have no key. AI 'has it' (in a way) but it cannot tell you what it is.
With the picture, we can easily see that the answer is correct.
Here we cannot. In fact, it is quite the opposite.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - pmw57 - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 07:41 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When you show a picture to an AI, it can tell you what is in it, and it will essentially always give the right answer.
However, it is incapable of telling you how it knew.
I provide no pictures, there is just has a minimal handover to start with and my translisterated text to work from.
It can and does provide full details are about how it knows, but that's neither here nor there at the moment.
My work of adjusting the EVA and AVA transliterations to correct some issues with them, has resulted in what looks to be a good direction to explore.
I am currently in the midst of coming up with a simple handover that can be given to anyone versed in the region of 15th-century Tuscan/Lombard Mercantesca.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - eggyk - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 03:45 AM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(17-05-2026, 01:45 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are unable to say anything else. There are 20 letters so there will be the same 20 words again and again over 200 pages of manuscript.
Thank you for bringing that up, for from the adjustments to the transliteration that I made above, I'm getting a rock-solid translation of the following for the first paragraph of f99r.
English translation: The mixture is softened and oiled in the bath, then strain it into the water bath for the plant tops; at the proper readiness of the oil, the cooked tops are submerged, continually oiling them gradually. Once brought to a thinned-out readiness, the prepared body. yes the prepared body, is adapted to it; managing the linens appropriately for it, by means of the oil at this state of readiness, use the linens to strain the liquid during the cooking down. Pour the raw material into a glass vessel with hot water, keeping it lubricated with oil under the heat of the cooking; by this stage, the substance must be regulated to temper the worked mass. To obtain the finished product, strain it when the linens are brought to readiness, sealing the deep basin containing the strained batch with wax in the oiled water bath, completing the final poured reduction within the bath.
Now to not to draw the ire against AI assistance and to help act as separate verification, I am keeping separate my process of going from themy modified AVA transliteration of abbreviated Italian into expanded Italian, which resulted in the above English prose. That way a separate verification may chance to occur.
Now hold on a moment, you didn't address the point at all. There are only ~20 letters, so you only have ~20 possible words. So given your english translation above, aren't you just straight up admitting that you're simply transliterating the text into AVA and then asking AI to work out what it means? Theres no relevant part of this that is human made other than the initial transliteration.
You can't just say "i've translated a paragraph from the VMS into english" and then say you won't show the process because its an AI solution, as AI solutions are against the rules. You're showing the AI generated result.
(18-05-2026, 07:56 AM)pmw57 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I provide no pictures, there is just has a minimal handover to start with and my translisterated text to work from.
It can and does provide full details are about how it knew, but that's neither here nor there at the moment.
I'm sorry, but it is here, and it is there. Just because it says where it got something from does NOT mean it is bringing up real sources. LLMs lie, hallucinate, and go along with what the prompter says.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - pmw57 - 18-05-2026
(18-05-2026, 10:33 AM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm sorry, but it is here, and it is there. Just because it says where it got something from does NOT mean it is bringing up real sources. LLMs lie, hallucinate, and go along with what the prompter says.
I've supplied a few links to some of the reliable sources that have been exposed from my efforts.
I'm supplying the transliterated text that I'm working from, so that anyone here can work at expanding it based on what's been found.
Yes LLM's hallucinate, which is why after I found a viable direction I'm wanting to get real people involved.
The transliteration techniques that I've been improving on looks to be a new-found avenue of discovery that from all evidence hasn't really been explored before.
I'm also working on contacting historical manuscript experts in my local area to gain their input about things.
The last thing I want is to just dump text through an LLM. That's why I've been posting here, to get real people involved.
RE: Paracelsian spagyric medicine - Ruby Novacna - 18-05-2026
I didn't understand, does pceoba mean mixture?