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+--- Thread: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatan's prop (/thread-5465.html)
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - quimqu - 20-03-2026
This could be a cool hypothesis. For me, the most weird thing is the text. If it is a hoax, the Zipf law (for example) and the connections or strange properties that we see, are they casual? Why would he try to make the text look like a language if the "clients" could barely read their own?
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - Rafal - 20-03-2026
Quote:Why would he try to make the text look like a language if the "clients" could barely read their own?
Because some of them could read anyway. In towns in Germany around the year 1400 it could be 20%-30% of men. That's what Gemini says
And having a manuscript in unreadable language our charlatan could tell any crazy stories he liked.
By the way, it's time for the question - what Voynich Manuscript is about.
So if the text is meaningless, then it is about nothing, right?
But it seems to pretend that it is about medicine, especially women medicine.
Think about some common thing in all parts of Voynich Manuscripts - herbs, pharmacological containers, astronomical diagrams, bathing. It is all related to health.
Of course you must remember that medieval medicine was connected to astronomy and astrology. You should collect plants only at certain day, make surgeries only with some setup of planets and so on.
And there is nothing in Voynich Manuscript obviously not related to human health like a bestiary, religious stuff or some knight stories.
Speaking of women health manuals, such things existed. For example there was Secreta Mulierum by Albertus Magnus:
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Secreta Mulierum is mostly about pregnancy and Voynich, judging by imagery, seems to be also about pregnancy.
Have a look at chapers of Secreta Mulierum:
[*]
Code:
[*]On the Generation of the Embryo
[*]On the Formation of the Fetus
[*]Concerning the Influence of the Planets
[*]On the Generation of Imperfect Animals
[*]On the Exit of the Fetus From the Uterus
[*]Concerning Monsters in Nature
[*]On the Signs of Conception
[*]On the Signs of Whether a Male or Female Is In the Uterus
[*]On the Signs of Corruption of Virginity
[*]On the Signs of Chastity
[*]Concerning a Defect of the Womb
[*]Concerning Impediments to Conception
[*]On the Generation of the SpermYou must remember that pregnancy in medieval ages was a dangerous thing. A lot of women died during childbirth and conventional doctors were often helpless. No matter if you were a princess or a cowgirl the risk was mostly the same.
If our charlatan promised in convincing way a safe pregnancy and childbirth and you needed just to buy his wares then he could enjoy popularity.
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - Bluetoes101 - 20-03-2026
(20-03-2026, 06:29 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is a charlatan's machine. It is suppose to diagnose diseases but it just fakes it.
But you will probably agree that making it required some money investment, time, creativity and effort.
A charlatan needs to seem believable and make good impression. Some advanced prop really helps him with it as people think
"Hey, if he wanted to cheat me, he would make it simpler"
And then he gets you
Could we not say the same of a spoon (or comb)?
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - JustAnotherTheory - 20-03-2026
(20-03-2026, 07:32 PM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(20-03-2026, 02:54 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The first words in several plant folios also appear in the "reicpes" section.
This is interesting. Are you able to list these words or give the source for this observation?
Of course, just go to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and click on some first words in plant names. It's an amazing tool.
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - BessAgritianin - 21-03-2026
I think the "hoax" theory" is a case of study - how we respond to an unsolved problem.
When an object resists us for a long time, the temptation comes to say the object is invalid, rather than to admit- "We cannot solve it".
It is less genuine argument and more a way of giving up.
Consider two of the most brilliant cryptographers in history- Friedmans, who broke codes that the nation depended on dealt for years with VM.
When they couldn't crack it they considered it to be meaningsless.
"Hoax" is just another word for nothing left to say.
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - MarcoP - 21-03-2026
Actually, William Friedman concluded that “The Voynich MS was an early attempt to construct an artificial or universal language of the a priori type".
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RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - dexdex - 21-03-2026
(20-03-2026, 07:38 PM)quimqu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This could be a cool hypothesis. For me, the most weird thing is the text. If it is a hoax, the Zipf law (for example) and the connections or strange properties that we see, are they casual? Why would he try to make the text look like a language if the "clients" could barely read their own?
More people than you think could read the vernacular. You could make it Latin but then if you got caught the clergy would instantly know you're full of shit.
An invented script solves both these issues.
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - eggyk - 21-03-2026
(21-03-2026, 05:00 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think the "hoax" theory" is a case of study - how we respond to an unsolved problem.
When an object resists us for a long time, the temptation comes to say the object is invalid, rather than to admit- "We cannot solve it".
It is less genuine argument and more a way of giving up.
Consider two of the most brilliant cryptographers in history- Friedmans, who broke codes that the nation depended on dealt for years with VM.
When they couldn't crack it they considered it to be meaningsless.
"Hoax" is just another word for nothing left to say.
Perhaps in that case, yes, "Hoax" was the only option those cryptographers had other than "we don't know", which was clearly an unacceptable thing for them to admit to themselves.
However, "meaningless text" / "hoax" theories that start from the ground up with coherent logic and reasoning are not the same as that. To say "it has meaning, because x and y" is just as genuine as "it has no meaning, because x and y".
Nor is it giving up. If research on this hypothesis leads to new, previously unknown information, that could have benefits for all sides. For example, discovering similar hoaxes, or discovering aspects of hoaxes that the VMS shares, discovering new historical figures who could be relevant, or discovering historical precedent to which the VMS can be compared. That research could well lead to the conclusion that the VMS is not a hoax, too.
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - Rafal - 21-03-2026
Quote:Actually, William Friedman concluded that “The Voynich MS was an early attempt to construct an artificial or universal language of the a priori type".
He said it just to say something and give some some hypothesis instead of admitting total defeat. But it seems to me that he wasn't very convinced aboutit.
And then he did nothing with it. Constructed language option has been never seriously checked neither by Friedman, nor by the team of Currier and D'Imperio nor by any serious researcher.
RE: Voynich Manuscript as a charlatao's prop - Jorge_Stolfi - 21-03-2026
(21-03-2026, 12:07 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps in that case, yes, "Hoax" was the only option those cryptographers had other than "we don't know", which was clearly an unacceptable thing for them to admit to themselves.
IIRC there were several famous cipher books from the 1400s and 1500s that cryptographers had declared to be hoaxes more than 100 years ago, but were eventually cracked. Two of them were solved by "our" Jim Reeds.
And then there is the Rohonc codex, which was widely believed to be a hoax too. WIth a named suspect an all.
All the best, --stolfi.