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+--- Thread: Some Voynichy crowns (/thread-5356.html)
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - R. Sale - 19-04-2026
Here is a depiction of an Eastern crown. 1403-1406, Vienna
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It appears to have imperial arches, but somewhat unclear given the diapering background.
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - Aga Tentakulus - 20-04-2026
It is the same crown as the one on the coin and on Friedrich’s tombstone.
A stone statue stands in the archive. It was damaged during World War II.
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - Aga Tentakulus - 20-04-2026
Here are the statues that are in the archive.
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - MarcoP - 20-04-2026
(12-02-2026, 09:47 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Did anyone ever look into whether a female figure ever wore a crown like this? Although I wonder to what extent that is necessary, given the overall lack of clarity over what the nymphs are.
I haven't really looked into this, but I guess it should be found in non-literal scenes about Fortune, Venus, Saint Mary etc.
This is a late example (1490):
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RE: Some Voynichy crowns - R. Sale - 20-04-2026
The distinctive feature of the Eastern crown is the presence of relatively large triangular points rising up from the headband. These same triangular points, rather than the fleur-de-lis, crosses, or that ubiquitous three-leaf clover, borrowed from a cross botany, are what is found in the VMs representations.
The upper parts of a crown, where there are arches, a cross, and/or other decoration, are indicators of imperial *status*, but they carry little significance for national or historical identification. Various European empires used arched crowns, and in religion as well.
The image in Morgan M.853 is interesting because its provenance is so precise - and because it's dating coincides with the start of the VMs chronology.
The VMs artist either independently invented an Eastern crown clone or was in some other way acquainted with the particular structure of triangular points. This indicates the artist would need to have been a person whose knowledge spanned the distance from "Oresme's cosmos" in Paris to the Eastern crown of Corpus Christi in Vienna - a broad spectrum of experience to which more can be added.
The nymphs of the VMs Zodiac sequence may appear generic as a group, but the artist has taken the liberty to transform a few of them into historical and literary caricatures. Here the crowns provide identification from the artist's point of view, but not yet clear from the modern perspective.
The cosmic and zodiac sections are all the work of 'Hand 4'. The illustrations and the text of these sections needs to be given special consideration.
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - Aga Tentakulus - 21-04-2026
Now, the Bishop's Gate, Vienna Cathedral, and a painting.
In other words, books, statues, gates, paintings, coins...
It would be a miracle not to know about the crown.
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - Bluetoes101 - 22-04-2026
The statues of Rudolf IV of Austria (think that is him on he left?) were the first (of that era anyway) statues of oneself commissioned in cathedrals in this way, all others were kneeling, or submissive in someway.. or since dead and commissioned by someone else. He wanted to present himself as the Archbishop and have people see him as such and as Aga says the commissioned likenesses took many forms.
IMO the distinctive crown in the VMS has a decent chance of being this crown, the fabricated (at least believe to be) Archbishop crown first dreamed up by Rudolph. The real version was not made until Sigismund who was made duke in 1439 and elevated by his cousin to archduke in 1477. It is the best lead I've found in any case.
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - Aga Tentakulus - 22-04-2026
Next to the gate, according to the archives, is Albert III, the brother of Rudolf IV. After Rudolf’s death, Albert continued to finance the construction.
To the right is his wife, , the sister of Rudolf’s wife.
I believe Rudolf and his wife are depicted further up (second crown).
Interestingly, there is a statue of Margaret of Luxembourg (Rudolf IV’s mother) in which she is wearing the same crown.
It’s hard to say exactly who is depicted on the gate.
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - Aga Tentakulus - 22-04-2026
If I take a closer look, especially at the statue where he’s holding the cathedral in his hands, I’d also say it’s Rudolf IV (the patron).
But the history of Vienna tells a different story.
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Margarethe on Luxenburg
RE: Some Voynichy crowns - Aga Tentakulus - 22-04-2026
If you look closely at their facial features, one is Albrecht and the other is Rudolf.
Decide for yourself.