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+--- Thread: Ruby's Greek Thread (/thread-3904.html)
RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - Ruby Novacna - 23-06-2022
Could the position of the word in the paragraph be a clue?
RE: Oiin as a verb ending - Ruby Novacna - 24-06-2022
The inflection -oun also occurs in nouns: we can read, e.g. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as βουν - accusative of βους- bullock, bull, ox and choiin as χουν - accusative of χους - a measure of capacity.
RE: Oiin as a verb ending - cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 24-06-2022
(18-06-2022, 07:18 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(18-06-2022, 06:36 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.EVA aiin and oiin are both Slovenian grammatical endings for the verbs(18-06-2022, 06:36 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Reading EVA iin as IIV, we can get another set of Slovenian grammatical endings for adjectivesCvetka, did you manage to find all the correspondences of -oiin and -aiin in Slovenian?
Sorry, I did not answer sooner.
The reading of EVA-IIN seems natural to me as M, which is one of the oldest written signs, used already in Vinča culture on the Balkans 5.000 years ago, as well as in ancient Hebrew, Etruscan, Venetian etc. It is still written like that in cursive writing, except that the connecting line on top became rounded.
I accounted most of the -iin endings (in different readings of the minims). Most frequently, it stands for first person singular, present tense ending, however when it is preceded or followed by auxiliary verb 'to be', it indicated the '-iiv, or -iw' reading, which means past or future tense, or conditional mood. It can also be an ending for a noun (dative, masculine, singular). There are also some root words ending on -IIN (M). The mere fact that how vowel changes in the verbs is indicative of Slovenian grammar. I collected some words to show you how it works in the VM.
As you can see, there are some distinctions where to read a string of minims as m, im, nu, iiv, iw, but this is not always the case if I read it in the context, because the author probably knew the reader will know how to read minims from the context. Also, IIV and IW stand for the same sound (iu), since V at the end is pronounced as U. IIV can also be read as JIV (since i was also used for j). JIV is also frequent Slovenian ending.
Sorting the VM words and comparing the handwriting is very helpful, but still, the reading is hard. Also, the translation is hard, because the same words (pronounced with different accent or shade of vowel) can mean different thing.
Anyway, there are over 600 DAM words in the VM.
RE: Oiin as a verb ending - Ruby Novacna - 24-06-2022
(24-06-2022, 03:25 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The reading of EVA-IIN seems natural to me as MI agree with you, Cvetka, that iin first looks like m. However it appears more at the end of words, what glyph do you think transcribes the m at the beginning and in the middle of words?
RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - davidjackson - 24-06-2022
Well, without sentence markers I don't see how that would be possible.
RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - Ruby Novacna - 25-06-2022
(24-06-2022, 08:34 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.without sentence markers I don't see how that would be possibleThat's why I said paragraph, or maybe it's better to say lines?
RE: How to distinguish the participle from the declined noun? - davidjackson - 25-06-2022
No, because a paragraph could be anything - a group of sentences, prose, rhymes.... or even written backwards.
So you can't extract any positional information from it.
RE: Combination of pch glyphs - Ruby Novacna - 26-06-2022
I have just added a post with about fifteen words beginning with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The vast majority of terms found are from the B language pages.
RE: Combination of pch glyphs - tavie - 26-06-2022
(17-04-2022, 04:52 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I still persist in seeking a solution by simple substitution. I know that the majority of Voynich followers do not share this kind of idea.
I think the point is not that individual glyphs can't be substitutes for plaintext characters: some may well be. But the whole solution itself cannot be down to simple substitution. Simple substitution cannot possibly explain all of the various odd behaviours of Voynichese, such as the the paragraph starting glyphs mentioned here, wider oddities around gallows' behaviour elsewhere, line starting characters, line end characters, excessive - in fact in parts obsessive - alliteration for certain glyphs, and most of all the entropy problem that Koen explained so well.
You can develop a theory with a core element of substitution that works alongside other mechanisms to explain these problems...but then it will no longer be a simple substitution theory.
RE: Combination of pch glyphs - Ruby Novacna - 27-06-2022
(26-06-2022, 03:03 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Simple substitution cannot possibly explain all of the various odd behaviours of VoynicheseIn this thread I focus on the combination of pch and also cph, which by definition will not solve all the problems of the manuscript.