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+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - oshfdk - 05-08-2026
(05-08-2026, 08:42 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.oshfdk here on the forum did that by layering all the Scans on top of each other, if i understand it correctly
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@ age hast du das mit dem cz und dem "g" überlesen?
This was done by taking a linear regression model trained on the margin text of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and applying it to f116v. The result is a linear combination of images, so essentially, as you said, just different images stacked on top of one another with different weights. There was no local processing or local enhancement, this is as conservative as it gets. There was also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (here's Koen trying this script for f1r: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
Ultimately this was also important as a witness of a possible signature at the bottom right of f116v.
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Since this "signature" reproduces quite well under this linear combination of images, I think this is likely some actual past writing or imprint, maybe made by a tool similar to that used for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The thread about this "signature": You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: 116v - Jorge_Stolfi - 05-08-2026
(05-08-2026, 07:44 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(05-08-2026, 07:13 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So ‘pal8en’ can't be a “d,” or at least it's unlikely.If your ‘p’ is a ‘v’.
How much did you adjust the settings to turn a ‘v’ into a ‘p’?
I’m asking because I can’t see it in the other scans.
Am I even allowed to adjust anything after the scan?
The descender of the "p" is very clear in the UV image.
The only adjustment mad to that clip was setting the brightness of the whole image so that the vellum looks gray. That is the minimum adjustment needed to see anything in the scanned image.
Brightness and contrast adjustments can make faint lines become invisible, but cannot create a line or spot where there is none. So those letters were definitely "p".
In fact the letters on line 1 that are sometimes read as "u" or "v" seem to be "p" too. Thus that line probably was "poxleber pinen potpfer". The last word is often read as "put..." instead of "pot...", but the supposed "u" is closed at the top by a faint line:
The only occurrences of "u" or "v" on that text seems to be the "v" of "vix", and some part of the squiggle in the word after "oladabad", which may be "multod" or "umltod" or "uniltod" or "imiltod" or "inultod" or who-knows-what...
All the best, --stolfi
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 06-08-2026
Isn't the top part of that apparent “o” just a vellum artifact?
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 06-08-2026
If you trace only the lines in a specific dark area (here by hand), it looks like this.
RE: 116v - DG97EEB - 06-08-2026
(06-08-2026, 06:21 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you trace only the lines in a specific dark area (here by hand), it looks like this.
Lucifer?
RE: 116v - Jorge_Stolfi - 06-08-2026
(06-08-2026, 06:10 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Isn't the top part of that apparent “o” just a vellum artifact?Yes, the top of that letter may be just noise. But then that "u" would be rather strange: two strokes open at top and bottom, one back-slanted and one upright but slightly bent, both shorter than the surrounding letters.
(06-08-2026, 06:21 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you trace only the lines in a specific dark area (here by hand), it looks like this.
But the stems of both "p"s must be considered, even though they are faint. Otherwise those glyphs cannot be parsed as Latin letters. It is the same situation as the "p"s of "palden pbrey".
So that second word could have been "putpfer" instead of "potpfer". It does not seem to make much difference...
All the best, --stolfi
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 06-08-2026
(05-08-2026, 08:42 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@ age hast du das mit dem cz und dem "g" überlesen?No, I've seen it 100 times already.
‘an’ can also mean ‘au/auch’.
‘an leib und auch hertzen’
RE: 116v - Koen G - 06-08-2026
Isn't that just an leib und an hertzen?
To body and to heart?
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 06-08-2026
(06-08-2026, 10:14 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Isn't that just an leib und an hertzen?
To body and to heart?
Both lines form a rhyme.
All the pain is in the body and the heart.
It is a kind of poetic form. The rhyme is between ‘pain’ and ‘heart’. Der Reim liegt bei Schmerz und Herz
Zweizeiler.
"Jesus sprach es werde Licht,
doch Moses fand den Schalter nicht.
A couplet.
"Jesus said, “Let there be light”,
but Moses couldn’t find the switch."
RE: 116v - Bluetoes101 - 06-08-2026
I don't think there is a 0% chance the "p's" are "u's", maybe they just got a bit "swishy" on the bottom line, who knows how visible that "swish" ever was without modern tech. And these "u's" were enough to fool OCR.
Another fun OCR mistake I've noticed is "Marix" when it is "Mariæ" and I've been wondering if there is a connection.. Maybe some people just did an "x" shape as it was quicker, or maybe its "pre-mincing" inspiration.. I don't know.