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+--- Thread: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS (/thread-1745.html)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 24-12-2020
Prompted by a discussion in another thread, I have the following question: the Arab alchemists in the ninth and tenth centuries proposed that all metals are composed of two basic "principles": Sulfur and Mercury. The union of alchemical sulfur and mercury in the perfect proportions should result in the Philosopher's Stone. But what about the salt ? As far as I know, Paracelsus added salt to create a trinity of alchemical elements. Unfortunately, I do not know any more sources that support this assumption. Does anyone know more about this ?
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Searcher - 24-12-2020
(24-12-2020, 04:47 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Prompted by a discussion in another thread, I have the following question: the Arab alchemists in the ninth and tenth centuries proposed that all metals are composed of two basic "principles": Sulfur and Mercury. The union of alchemical sulfur and mercury in the perfect proportions should result in the Philosopher's Stone. But what about the salt ? As far as I know, Paracelsus added salt to create a trinity of alchemical elements. Unfortunately, I do not know any more sources that support this assumption. Does anyone know more about this ?
As much as I know, Paracelsus made the triple principle usual and widespread. Of course, salt was in alchemy from ancient times, but generally it wasn't included to the main principles, since mostly prevailed the conception of duality, while some Arabic authors used the system of triad before Paracelsus.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 24-12-2020
Ok, here is a nice test setup for the "Great Work"
The result is red mercury sulfide ( vermilion, HgS).Although it is hard to believe that the alchemists made it so simple, it is the very simplicity that makes it so plausible.
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Quote:The red mercury sulfide, vermilion, finally had several properties that made it a good candidate for the philosopher's stone: it is red, heavy (like gold) and - like gold - does not dissolve in any acid except aqua regia. The fact that it could not be used to cause transmutation could have been interpreted as follows: the starting materials were not pure enough. And for this there was a way out: one subjects the vermilion to the dry heating and it distills off mercury again - the mercurius can be recovered "purified" and used again for the "great work".
It is to be noted that a process similar to the one described was already known to the alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan (722-804) and was written down in detail in his book of color recipes.
Quote:So did vermilion-makers think they might actually be making the Philosopher’s stone? When I give talks about colour-making chemistry, I have always taken care to disabuse audiences of that idea. Jabir’s Sulfur and Mercury are subtle, intangible ‘principles’, I say, and not the same thing as the earthly elements extracted from the ground. ‘Alchemists said that sulfur is not Sulfur and mercury is not Mercury,’ warns Bucklow – so vermilion ‘is a poor “material copy” of a “spiritual pattern.”
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - DONJCH - 25-12-2020
Interesting that the ideas of Jung got in there. I sometimes wonder if a Jungian type concept could be involved in the VMS.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - RenegadeHealer - 25-12-2020
(25-12-2020, 01:02 AM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Interesting that the ideas of Jung got in there. I sometimes wonder if a Jungian type concept could be involved in the VMS.
What scholar looked at the VMs in recent years and remarked that the imagery looked strikingly "Paracelsan"? He was quick to add that this couldn't be so, since Paracelsus was not contemporary with its creation. I want to say it was either Alain Touwaide or Jurgen Hermes, but I'll look it up and add it to this post when I get the chance.
I think despite the obvious anachronism of naming Paracelsus specifically, whoever said that might have been onto something. I think it's highly possible the author[s?] of the VMs and Paracelsus share common, possibly quite strong and proximal, influences. I think looking at the circles Paracelsus' teachers ran in, and the lineage of the major ideas he wrote about, might be a very promising lead. Without even delving into this, though, I suspect a limiting factor might be the survival (or rather, lack thereof) of any full books from any of these lineages. This is especially true in light of the fact that alchemical works of both natural law (science) and mysticism were controversial, and I can only imagine, frequent casualties of book-burnings.
What I'm getting at is this: if we came to find the VMs represents a missing link in the chain of Classical Greek natural philosophical and mystical ideas borrowed back from the peoples of the Middle East, that would be nothing short of earth-shattering to philologists. But it would also ratchet up the heartache of wondering what the earlier links in this chain, which are likely gone for good, might have looked like.
I hope that someday, with efforts like Project Gutenburg and Google Books, an unbroken chain of spiritual and natural philosophical ideas can be traced definitively all the way back to the beginnings of written language in the Fertile Crescent, and hint at a vast body of disseminated orally transmitted wisdom that could stretch deep into prehistory. But I also understand this is quite a pipe dream, and the Dark Ages in the Classical World might just pose the first of many unbridgeable gaps.
As for Carl Jung, he's perhaps best known for the idea that humanity has told and retold the same important stories over generations since its beginnings, as a reflection of our common psychology, and the fact that we all face the same basic questions and challenges throughout life. And like his teacher Sigmund Freud, Jung argued that this process of meaning-making-by-storytelling was largely unconscious and spontaneous. Fascinating stuff.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 25-12-2020
For the sake of completeness it should be mentioned that C.G. Jung has dealt extensively with the inner alchemy and also wrote about it (from the point of view of psychology).
Jung, C. G., Hull, R. F. C. (Ed.), Psychology and Alchemy, Taylor and Francis, 2014
Quote:C. G. Jung proves that the observable phenomena of the unconscious, namely dreams and visions, produce pictorial connections, as they are also encountered in the symbolism of alchemy. From this arises the possibility of an understanding of the enigmatic 'Hermetic' ideas, which are characterized as much by parallelism as by opposition to the basic Christian ideas. The parallel which alchemy draws between its so-called 'philosopher's stone' and Christ is worthy of detailed study. In "Memories, Dreams, Thoughts" Jung gives information about his work on the book, which kept him busy for more than a decade: 'Very soon I had seen that Analytical Psychology strangely coincides with Alchemy. The experiences of the alchemists were my experiences, and their world was in a sense my world. This was, of course, an ideal discovery for me, for with it I had found the historical counterpart to my psychology of the unconscious. It now received a historical ground. The possibility of comparison with alchemy as well as the spiritual continuity back to Gnosticism gave it substance. Through the occupation with the ancient texts everything found its place: the imagery of the imaginations, the experiential material I had collected in my practice, and the conclusions I had drawn from it. Now I began to realize what the contents meant in a historical perspective. My understanding of their typical character, which had already been initiated by my myth research, deepened. The archetypes and the essence of the archetype moved into the center of my research, and I realized that without history there is no psychology and all the more no psychology of the unconscious.'
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - DONJCH - 25-12-2020
Jung also used the idea of the "Waking Dream" and the drawing of Mandalas as a kind of diagnostic tool to access the subconscious.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 26-12-2020
An insight into Jung's point of view is offered by symbolreader's blog series. Parts 7-9 are especially interesting, but the other parts are also worth reading.
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - R. Sale - 26-12-2020
And the best example of alchemical symbolism in the VMs is ... ???
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 26-12-2020
(26-12-2020, 07:32 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And the best example of alchemical symbolism in the VMs is ... ???So far, I can't find an example, but I still think it's appropriate here to address C. G. Jung and his perspective. After all, one must first introduce a possibility to check whether it can lead to the right path or not. The result is not a foregone conclusion