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+--- Thread: How were the circles drawn? (/thread-4937.html)
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How were the circles drawn? - Jorge_Stolfi - 19-09-2025
How were circles in the Cosmo and Zodiac sections drawn?
The general smoothness of the traces indicates that they were drawn with some mechanical implement, rather than by free hand. In several (all?) pages one can find a pin prick at or very close to the center of all the circles on the page, consistent with the circles being drawn with a compass.
However, in many cases the circles are not quite round. Typically, in an image editor like Gimp one can get a geometrical ellipse that matches, say, 3/4 of the circle very precisely, down to a pixel or two in the BL 2014 images, with a center that is a few pixels away from that pinprick. The height and width of the ellipse may differ by up to 2% for the larger circles. This discrepancy is probably due to the parch not being flat when it was imaged.
But other parts of the circle will then deviate from that geometric ellipse by several mm over spans of several cm. Worse still, the drawn circle often fails to close: the two ends miss each other by a couple of mm and run parallel for a few cm.
Some of these deviations could be explained by the parch being not just curved but badly warped when it was imaged. But this cannot account for the circles that don't close. Possible explanations for these errors could be the parch moving and warping while the circle was being drawn by the Scribe, or the compass being some improvised contraption that was not as solid as it should have been.
The traces of the circles are very thin, only 0.2 mm or less wide. Some of the traces are continuous but very faint, to the point of being partly invisible in the BL 2014 images. They may have been drawn with a hard pencil-type point, such as a lead (real Pb) pencil.
In some pages, these "pencil" traces were apparently retraced in ink by hand, resulting in a visibly jittery double trace; but these cases are better discussed in the context of general retracing discussion.
But in many cases the "pencil" traces alternate with thin ink traces, with no deviation. The ink traces are just as thin as the pencil ones. They are sometimes continuous too, but sometimes break down in random dashes and dots.
Therefore, I believe that the full circles were drawn with a compass with a pen-like attachment. The parts that look like drawn in pencil must be where this attachment basically ran out of ink and merely scratched the parch, leaving just a smudge of whatever little ink that was still adhering to it.
The attachment cannot have been an ordinary quill pen, because that would surely have produced much broader traces. Today compasses usually come with special pens for ink, like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. This tool can draw very fine lines and was massively used for technical drafting (including by me, in high school and college) until ~40 years ago when laser printers became available.
The screw with knurled nut, visible in that mage, lets one vary the thickness of the trace. It can be dispensed with if one only needs traces of a fixed width. All one needs is a tweezer-like pair of steel prongs with properly shaped tips, that can hold a drop of ink between them by surface tension
This compass accessory must have been widely available at least since the 1800s. But would it (or something equivalent) be commonly available to scribes in the 1400s? Centuries before steel pens became common? The need for it surely was there...
Does anyone know?
All the best, --jorge
RE: How were the circles drawn? - RobGea - 19-09-2025
Small thread on how the Rosette folio roundels were made:
The Voynich Ninja > Voynich Research > Imagery > Some comments upon the construction of the circles of the Rosettes
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RE: How were the circles drawn? - Bluetoes101 - 20-09-2025
Janky free online tool used for measurements, not quite accurate but shows well enough
There was another thread from a while back on the same subject and once you know to look for tool marks in the middle you spot a fair few
RE: How were the circles drawn? - Jorge_Stolfi - 21-09-2025
(19-09-2025, 10:31 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Small thread on how the Rosette folio roundels were made:
The Voynich Ninja > Voynich Research > Imagery > Some comments upon the construction of the circles of the Rosettes You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Thanks!
For general amusement and edification, here is an annotated clip off69v showing some of the defects in the circles:
Anomalies in the circles and text ring baselines of f69v. (C1,C2,C3) correct traces of circles C1, C2, and C3, which are invisible in some places. To be compared with the white overlay lines, which are geometric circles concentric with those traces but smaller by ~0.5 mm all around. (E2,E3) Deviant traces of circles C2 and C3. Note that they run vaguely parallel to the correct traces for some distance, after missing them. (S1,S2,S3) Baseline corrections (full or partial) of text rings R1, R2, and R3, after they get past the wrong traces of C2 and C3, and adjust to the correct traces.
RE: How were the circles drawn? - LisaFaginDavis - 21-09-2025
Just to answer the first question - yes, compasses were certainly being used to draw circles in manuscripts by the fifteenth century.
RE: How were the circles drawn? - Jorge_Stolfi - 21-09-2025
(21-09-2025, 03:39 AM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just to answer the first question - yes, compasses were certainly being used to draw circles in manuscripts by the fifteenth century.
Thanks! But were they used to draw circles in ink (as opposed to pencil or dry-point)?
if so, how did they do it? With a metal attachment similar to the "modern" one? Or with a quill, attached to the compass in some way?
All the best, --jorge
RE: How were the circles drawn? - Aga Tentakulus - 21-09-2025
No matter which compass you use, the problem is always the ink. Without a reservoir that dispenses ink evenly, you don't stand a chance.
I have looked at technical drawings by Da Vinci. He also used a pen and hand, or a template.
I don't think a fine smith/compass smith (specialist in measuring tools) could have made anything else.
RE: How were the circles drawn? - N._N. - 21-09-2025
Maybe I am just stating the obvious, but a long-established way to draw round shapes is to place a small nail in the center and bind a pencil, pen, piece of chalk etc. with a cord to it. With some adaptations (two nails) you can also use it for an ellipse: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This should work with quills as well and might also explain mistakes where the circle is larger than it should be, because by pulling the pencil etc. to the outside, you always risk pulling the nails out the center, more so than with a compass from my experience.
Just as a remark: 'compass' for the drawing tool is somewhat irritating to German speakers because 'Kompass' is only used for the navigational instrument - the tool is a 'Zirkel'. I just realized that apparently most romance languages have the same double meaning for the word as English, so there is nothing lost in translation in that case I guess.
RE: How were the circles drawn? - Aga Tentakulus - 21-09-2025
The same problem arises here.
Pen, ink, parchment. What happens as soon as the pen touches the parchment?
Pick up ink, tap off excess, draw a line.
After 2-3 cm, repeat the process.
Even with careful work, the marks are visible.
What would have happened if he had used a syringe?
Even if it works, I don't know of any proof.
RE: How were the circles drawn? - Mauro - 21-09-2025
(21-09-2025, 12:37 PM)N._N. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just as a remark: 'compass' for the drawing tool is somewhat irritating to German speakers because 'Kompass' is only used for the navigational instrument - the tool is a 'Zirkel'. I just realized that apparently most romance languages have the same double meaning for the word as English, so there is nothing lost in translation in that case I guess.
Not Italian, which confusingly has it the other way around... Kompass = bussola, Zirkel = compasso
