(03-08-2016, 09:41 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Re Numbers, I very much doubt that the two men are "additional". Numbers 11:16 does not tell anything about additional men, I have an impression that those are included in these seventy.
This is an issue for centuries. More about this You are not allowed to view links.
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Some think, that 72 is the number of elders with Moses and Aaron (70+2).
24 So Moses went out and told the people what the Lord had said. He brought together seventy of their elders and had them stand around the tent. 25 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied—but did not do so again.
26 However, two men, whose names were Eldad and Medad, had remained in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but did not go out to the tent. Yet the Spirit also rested on them, and they prophesied in the camp. 27 A young man ran and told Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.”
It makes sense to consult what contemporary commenters (e.g. de Lyra) thought about it; anyway, these 70 or 72 men do not seem relevant to the picture in question.
(04-08-2016, 11:20 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It makes sense to consult what contemporary commenters (e.g. de Lyra) thought about it; anyway, these 70 or 72 men do not seem relevant to the picture in question.
Actually, this is not my real point. These numbers may refer us to the Old Testament, but I doubt in their literal meaning, I even feel doubts, those 72 elders really existed. In general, those 70-72 men are not so relevant, the numbers: 3, 6, 12, 13 and 72 are relevant in this case.
I prefer to think about this as about elements of cosmogony or astrology. So, I think, the author was an atheist and a heretic (Aren't you surrised?) in a particular measure.
3 - the Trinity, three Heavens, three-dimensional spase, the time: Past Present Future, Birth Life Death, Beginning Middle End etc.
6 - six days of the Creation, a human.
12 - 12 months, 12 Zodiacal signs...
13 - 13 lunar months (sometimes, solar), 13 constellations on the ecliptic
72 - 72 years period in precession, 72 paranatellonta.
to be continued...
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(03-08-2016, 08:07 PM)juergenw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (03-08-2016, 06:30 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Neverthless, I've counted 70 obvious asterisks and 2 - suspected, though I'm not sure what is under the spots of colour.
Thanks for checking! I did count the top one in the red circle (hence 71) - I didn't spot/see the bottom left one. I am not convinced that the bottom left one is an asterisks (and an extension of the blue 'blurb') though that doesn't mean I am correct and it could be one (would be interesting to see what others think about that one). I played with different filters too (saturation/contrast) which sort of let me count the top one in, but not the bottom one.
72 (if that were to be right) had so many interpretations...(you already provided some). The wikipedia page (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) gives some indication, amonst which are astronomy, etc... and in the spirit of my suggestion there are supposedly 72 names of Jerusalem (in Hebrew).
still the question remains: 71 or 72? Any other opinions out there?
Another observation:
12 blue blurbs in 12 three-fingered arms or fringes (see new attached screenshot). Fringe number thirteenth (labelled "13", around 4 pm) has a different structure (no three fingers) & is the only one seemingly attached to or firmly anchored to one of the 6 columns/towers that has a line (the only link) that connects the 'asterisks cloud/dais/baldachin' to the surroundings (indicated by the black arrow)
Quote:In general, those 70-72 men are not so relevant, the numbers: 3, 6, 12, 13 and 72 are relevant in this case.
What I mean is that this story of 70 (or 72) men does not seem relevant to the imagery in question. Hence there are no grounds to attribute a particular meaning to these 70+ stars here. If any stories or contexts that are relevant to the imagery are discovered, then one may construct some meaning therefrom.
When the whole area is just covered with stars which number appears to be 70+, I see no grounds to state than this number is on purpose.
(04-08-2016, 11:53 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:In general, those 70-72 men are not so relevant, the numbers: 3, 6, 12, 13 and 72 are relevant in this case.
What I mean is that this story of 70 (or 72) men does not seem relevant to the imagery in question. Hence there are no grounds to attribute a particular meaning to these 70+ stars here. If any stories or contexts that are relevant to the imagery are discovered, then one may construct some meaning therefrom.
When the whole area is just covered with stars which number appears to be 70+, I see no grounds to state than this number is on purpose.
Maybe, the number of the asterisks (72) is relevant just here as exactly this rosette contains 72 pipes.
To the point, I've counted 121 asterisks in the rosette with a castle, not 120. Check it.
(04-08-2016, 10:28 PM)juergenw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Another observation:
12 blue blurbs in 12 three-fingered arms or fringes (see new attached screenshot). Fringe number thirteenth (labelled "13", around 4 pm) has a different structure (no three fingers) & is the only one seemingly attached to or firmly anchored to one of the 6 columns/towers that has a line (the only link) that connects the 'asterisks cloud/dais/baldachin' to the surroundings (indicated by the black arrow)
I think, the 13th arm was planned just to be hidden behind the tower, therefore it is difficult to say, what the number of fingers must be there.
There is a significance to 72. I haven't a moment to look up my files just now, but it is related to the number 108, and I recall that one of the sources I was using at the time was Jim Tester's History of Western Astrology. Published, I'm pretty sure, by Boydell Press. Point is that (hope my memory isn't playing me false here), it cropped up in relation to the 'Marriage of Mercury and Philology'.
About Pythagorean beliefs and neo-Pythagorean ideas.
As it happens, I've been looking at that part of the Italian peninsula where Pythagoras lived, recently so I'd be very interested to hear more about him.
It might interest people to know that Pythagoras (or 'a' Pythagoras) was listed among the people who were said by the Harranians ('Sabians') to be worshipped by them. It is a very interesting fact that when 30 of every 40 Hellenistic works known to have existed by the beginning of the Roman period have been lost, we have every book listed by the Harranians as their holy writ.
Yesterday I posted a post on my blog, but since it is quite volume, I'd like to briefly explain here what I think the Rosettes diagram represents, in particular the central rosette. My conclusions are based on the analysis of the structure of this diagram and the analysis of numerical values in the complex.
This study was inspired by an excerpt from the III c. Gnostic text of the Gospel of Judas:
The twelve aeons of the twelve luminaries constitute their father, with six heavens for each aeon, so that there are seventy-two heavens for the seventy-two luminaries, and for each [of them] five firmaments, [for a total of] three hundred sixty [firmaments …].
Back in 2016, when we were counting different things on the Rosettes page, it seemed to me no coincidence that the central rosette contains 72 tubes, grouped by 6 pieces. In addition, there are about 70-72 asterisks in the "star veil". At that time I couldn't understand what the gathering of 12 groups of pipes of 6 pieces can talk about. I studied this issue for a long time to find an explanation for this, besides the biblical one that we mentioned. It turned out that this is a very ancient model of the division of the sky, associated with the peculiarity of the division of the year (calendar of 360 days: 72 weeks of 5 days). And although the calendar changed long ago, in the first century BC and in the first century AC, some philosophers considered the ancient cosmology to be more true and sacred, especially since the Bible also kept the secret of just such a structure of the universe. Therefore, some religious and philosophical movements included in their teachings just such a cosmology, the cosmology of the ancients. At the moment, I found a clear match only in the Gnostic texts, but I am sure that these are not all sources.
In general, the numbers 72, 12, 6, 13 and 7 fit perfectly into the cosmology of the Gnostics. If we add to this the images of stars, sun, moons, clouds and water, then the cosmological picture becomes even clearer.
If we talk about flows, about hints at various movements and states of a liquid, then an alchemical or eschatological meaning comes to mind, but there are other possibilities.
It is interesting what paleographers and historians would say, from which sources the author could get such data?
Besides, I compared the Rosettes diagram to tetradic diagrams with different context, and consider it complicated tetradic diagram, not usual, of course.
As for the outer rosettes:
Quote:If in the central rosette I see a certain cosmological and, possibly, cosmogonic structure, then in the outer rosettes I don’t see any consistency with that cosmology. The vertical part of rosettes on their own could fit in, but the horizontal line violates the entire cosmological picture. ... [But] if we take You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., come down to the lower middle rosette with seven sectors, and subtract it, we get You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Interestingly, the diagonal intermediate rosette (bottom right) depicts a picture that resembles a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
According to this logic, we have to perform some arithmetic operations with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Adding the number 13 to the previous 9, we get 22. On the one hand, this can mean 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and on the other, if we decide that the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. can participate in the calculations, then adding them to the number 9 of the previous rosette, we get the number 13 from the next rosette. From an esoteric point of view, the number 13 is the number of transformation, death and rebirth, that is, it is the last and the first at the same time, a new round begins with it.
One problem worries me: where does the number 16 come from? This number is not particularly sacred; it is difficult to fit it into any cosmology. Continuing to experiment with numbers, I also brought in here the number 3 from the upper right rosette, or rather, from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. So, we got: 13 + 3 = 16. I don’t know if this makes sense, but in the course of the experiment we got such a “looping task”.
7200 days (20 tuns) in the aztec long count calendar.
interestingly, 7200 / 20 = 360 (360degrees being a single turn in our mathematics).
they also had a 260 day calendar and 365 day calendar.
which could be linked to the Voynich calendars.
one group thinks the plants are Nuatl (mesoamerican/aztec names).