The Voynich Ninja

I've always suspected that some diagrams are enlarged versions of other diagrams.
So far, I've found one interesting match on two diagrams with f68v.
[attachment=16222]
Let's go through the indirect indicators:
1). The colors are the same (only blue)
2). There is a small star in the center
3). The second diagram has one more line.
4). The left diagram has 8 "rays" (I'm referring to those blue areas), while the right diagram has 16.
5).There is no text above the right diagram. If this is a variant of the left diagram, then there is no need to describe it again.
In general, it seems that the right diagram is the left diagram "enlarged" by two times.
They have a few common words: oteey, chey, dal, and dal is in approximately the same position.
A less obvious example is f69r-f69v, but here there is a decrease.
[attachment=16223]
[attachment=16224]
Both diagrams have a star in the center, but the number of rays is different (f69r - 46, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - 31). 

What do you think?

But 

(28-06-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.1). The colors are the same (only blue)

Maybe there was no so much color to work with or they had to be concidencially blue? From the perspective of your theory i think it is a good factor to consider.

(28-06-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.in general, it seems that the right diagram is the left diagram "enlarged" by two times.

Ah, like a Zoom In. Very interesting! I am lost on how to approach this, good stuff.

(28-06-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They have a few common words: oteey, chey, dal, and dal is in approximately the same position.

Very little incidence to be cribs i think, there should have been more. BUT in the voynich context this is like a crib, i was not expeciting to see repeated words. Very interesting. 
I'm lost tho...

(28-06-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A less obvious example is f69r-f69v, but here there is a decrease.

Maybe it was supposed to have the exact number but it made a mistake, the other posibility in this idea is that something changes when zooming in?

----I think is a very cool idea. Nice.
[attachment=16228]
[In this conceptual idea] Maybe the reason why the zoom out have 28 "tubes" and the zoom in has 45 "tubes" is because the zoom out was just a figurative drawing and the real number of lines was the zoom in version. Or the Zoom out has the categories and the zoom in as the sub categories or something like that.

(29-06-2026, 06:33 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe there was no so much color to work with or they had to be concidencially blue?

I really think so. Given that the overall style of the book is "substandarted" (compared to other manuscripts, it seems simpler and more minimalistic in design), this seems plausible. On f69, you can see that the author also uses green. This suggests that he had an abundance of green (presumably for plants) and blue (which is used extensively).

(29-06-2026, 06:33 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Very little incidence to be cribs i think, there should have been more.

These words are also found in other charts, so they may not mean anything in our case.

(29-06-2026, 06:33 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the other posibility in this idea is that something changes when zooming in?

It is unclear how these changes manifest themselves. I could not find any connection other than the superficial resemblance. I also don't understand how the rays are distributed on f69r.

(29-06-2026, 06:33 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe the reason why the zoom out have 28 "tubes" and the zoom in has 45 "tubes" is because the zoom out was just a figurative drawing and the real number of lines was the zoom in version. Or the Zoom out has the categories and the zoom in as the sub categories or something like that.

Everything is possible

(29-06-2026, 09:52 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also don't understand how the rays are distributed on f69r.

Yup. And why the drawer didn't use a rule or something to draw straight lines, it is a pain to me trying to predict its intention.

(29-06-2026, 09:52 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Everything is possible

yea, i went for a tangent there huha. Is like a deduction based on an idea and then one makes another deduction that gets farther and farther into fantasy land, maybe is better not to navigate that far away. But it is Fun, is a guilty pleasure in a way.

(29-06-2026, 10:20 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yup. And why the drawer didn't use a rule or something to draw straight lines, it is a pain to me trying to predict its intention.

Perhaps he was too focused on the upper "bumps" of this figure. However, he used a pair of compasses to draw a circle around a star.

(29-06-2026, 10:48 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps he was too focused on the upper "bumps" of this figure. However, he used a pair of compasses to draw a circle around a star.

He did use a compass with an ink attachment to draw most of the circles of the Zodiac and Cosmo, including the outlines of the islands in the Nine-Islands fold-out.  On many of them one can still see the pinprick at the center made by the pivot.

However, the circles often fail to close, and then the two ends run past each other, one mm or so apart, for a few cm.  Maybe those defects were caused by the vellum being floppy and wavy, or maybe his compass was not sturdy enough.  On the Beinecke scans, the traced circles also may deviate from round by one mm or so over several cm; either from the same causes, or because the vellum was not flat when imaged.

Some of the smaller circles -- like the "clock with hands" at the SW corner of the big fold-out -- probably were drawn freehand, or maybe by tracing around a template.  The almond shape at the center of the SW "island" may have been traced as two compass arcs, joined by freehand rounded points. 

He did use a straight edge on several Cosmo diagrams (but not, apparently, on the Nine-Things one).  However, he did not know how to divide a circle into equal parts -- not even 4 parts.  It seems certain that he had no set square, much less a protractor.

I haven't seen any trace of pencil sketches under the freehand drawings of lines that were supposed to be straight, such as the "logs" of f69v, the "cannons" protruding form  the central "island" of the big fold-out. or the baselines of radial text lines.  Maybe there were such sketches but they were erased or faded away.

All the best, --stolfi

(29-06-2026, 01:53 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe there were such sketches but they were erased or faded away.

Yea, is there a topic regarding the sketches below the drawings in the MS? If lots of the original text faded and had to be retraced then i guess the drawing of sketches were the first ones to go away.

(29-06-2026, 10:48 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps he was too focused on the upper "bumps" of this figure. However, he used a pair of compasses to draw a circle around a star.

Yea, and it looks to me some of the lines are made with a rule of some type. Maybe she/he wanted to do it faster and discarded the rule, lack of patience, maybe there was a time frame to finish the diagram or just desperation to finish it.

Now I believe that there is a relationship between ALL the diagrams in this book.
[attachment=16546]
Note that the figure in diagram 4 is almost the same as in diagram 3. The difference is in the number of spikes - 16 for the third and 12 for the fourth. The inner star (which is colored yellow) has 12 red rays...
Diagram 5 also has a yellow star in the center, and it uses only yellow and red colors. In addition, there are 12 phrases arranged in a circle in diagram 5 (if we consider rfchykchey ykchys as a single phrase)! This is the same number of rays as in diagram 4.
It turns out that the increase is not only from 2 to 3, but also from 2 to 5! But what does Diagram 1 mean? 
According to basic astronomical logic, we might think that this is the Milky Way. This would create a chain of "Milky Way - Some Nebulae - Sun - Solar System," but this... cannot be true. In the 15th century, the Milky Way was considered a band of stars.
From the point of view of medieval science, diagram 1 should represent a geocentric model. Indeed, the center shows a T-O map that can be compared to the Earth. The stars surrounding the Earth are the stars, and the blue cloud is the celestial sphere. This is consistent with the medieval belief that the stars were fixed to the celestial sphere. Curved bands can symbolize the rotation of celestial bodies around the Earth.
If this is the case, then Diagram 5 is practical and describes celestial bodies that are important for astrology.
But I don't think it's getting closer, it's getting further away. Starting from the Earth and ending with the cosmic scale, from which the celestial bodies can be seen (in the author's imagination).
However, this is not a complete proof, as the content of the text is unknown, but the visual data confirms my assumptions.
From here, possible translations: opcholdg - Europe (Europa), otodol - Africa. It makes sense, since these are hapax. In the Asia segment, it's not a name, but rather a long text. Perhaps this would make sense for the Chinese theory, where it might refer to China.

(13-07-2026, 06:19 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But what does Diagram 1 mean?

Are you aware of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?

Quote:From the point of view of medieval science, diagram 1 should represent a geocentric model. Indeed, the center shows a T-O map that can be compared to the Earth. The stars surrounding the Earth are the stars, and the blue cloud is the celestial sphere.

IIRC, that is a coincidence.  Note that this T-O map is anomalous: it has two quarters at top and a half-circle below.  I understand that it is not meant to be geographical, but religious.  Oresme's book is about the creation of the universe according to the Bible. That diagram would then illustrate Genesis I.6-12:

Quote:And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

 

The original elements in the VMS version of the drawing are the eight curved "roads" or "spiral arms" that connect the outer frame to either the edge of the "pool" inside the "cloud band" or to the core, alternatingly.

The VMS version of that cloud-band is all distorted, more an octagon than a circle.  I suppose that the Scribe drew the eight arms with the compass first, then drew the "fingers" of the cloud-band between the arms, without even thinking of getting them to lie on a common circle.

The VMS Scribe also apparently mis-understood the cloud-band and drew it as the sinuous ("nebuly") edge of either (1) a shallow pool where the stars are floating on, or (2) a thick board where the stars are attached to.  However, this mistake may have been made by the BEEEEP.

For a purely geometric analysis of that drawing, you may want to check You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

All the best, stolfi.

While f68v3 has been the subject of some interesting investigations, did anyone mention the 43 undulations, or Shirakatsi's wheel?, the images of v2 and v1 have yielded very little information. The celestial face in v1 is the second example wearing a headband.