The Voynich Ninja

Hi everyone,

Discussions in the Ladies with Rings thread often connected to the imagery on f85r2 aka the Four Ages of Man folio.
So I'm starting this thread to look more in depth at the figures depicted in it, the general structure of the page, etc.

To start things off, here's an image of St Anthony holding similar attributes to the "old age" figure at the bottom of the wheel:
From Officium parvum Beatae Mariae Virginis ad usum Ecclesiae Romanae, France (Picardie?) 1450-1457 Polish National Library Rps 8004 II, f119v.

Thank you VViews,
that page greatly interests me. It seems to be one for which quite a few interesting parallels can be found.
It was also discussed in this page on the site of Stephen Bax.
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I wrote there:

Quote:D’Imperio says that F85R2 “seems likely to be related to the four seasons, the four ages of man, the four humors etc… Figures of this sort are very common in medieval astrological and medical manuscripts, and refer to the central doctrine of the ‘microcosm’ or ‘small world’ of the human being, thought to reflect or recapitulate in miniature the elements and relations of the larger universe of ‘macrocosm’”.
....
I prefer the Four Seasons because the Sun at the center suggests to me a cosmological meaning, more than an allegory of human life.

This is still my opinion. 

The object held by the bottom figure and paralleled by St.Anthony's rosary is rather puzzling. I am looking forward to see other images proposed for comparison. Parallels that include sets of four human figures, possibly arranged in a circle, seem to me to be the most relevant.

Thanks MarcoP, and sorry I didn't realize that there was already a page discussing this on Stephen Bax's site.
Sure, this page could also be about the seasons, as you say the sun seems to suggest that. I used the "4 ages of man" only because the page is designated in those terms on the ninja wiki, not because I think that's what it shows. I like the idea that the globe-shaped object is a hand-warmer!
I agree, of course, that it would be even better to find an image that fits the general circular pattern and the iconography of the individual figures.
It is still unclear to me how this image works, regardless of whether it is the seasons or the ages, is it meant to be read counter-clockwise from the top figure? Or top figure first, then sides and finally bottom? The swirl-like blue lines around the sun seem to imply a circular motion, but I am hesitant to take this into account because I can't tell if they are marked in blue ink only or actually drawn beneath it, and I have an aversion to using the Voynich colors as a basis for my interpretations. Any ideas?

I think f85r2 should be considered jointly with f86v4, which appears to be of the same "story" - here we have Moon in the centre, and also four guys holding various objects.

Hence, I think it unlikely that the figures represent seasons or ages. Or, rather, the question should be: if the "sunny" figures represent seasons or ages, then what do the "moony" figures stand for?

Anton,
yes, the two do seem to be made as some kind of a pair.

For anyone who hasn't seen it there is a discussion of this on Nick Pelling's site (the link is on Stephen's page too) where he makes some parallels between the figures on both folios:
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Personally I've always thought that the "hand warmer" and the object held by the figure on the left side of the circle on the opposite page look like alembics or kerotakis.
This type of object of course, also relates to the idea of transformation of matter over a period of time, just like the changes of seasons or age... I believe this may be a theme.
The following images are just for illustration, as they are both too late for actual comparison, but this type of stuff is pretty standard and you find similar ones in the 14th/15th C.
I'll dig up a better one when I can, but you get the idea:

    
1st image: pinterest, 2nd image: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..  Andreas Libavius Alchymia, 1606,

Here's a cross sectional view of a kerotakis
[url=http://www.alchemywebsite.com/images_apparatus.html][/url]

Described on Adam McLean's website among illustrations of Alexandrian chemical apparatus, from a 10/11th century manuscript in St Mark's, Venice. In Berthelot, Introduction a l'etude de Ia chimie des anciens et du moyen age, Paris, 1889.

(23-04-2016, 09:28 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think f85r2 should be considered jointly with f86v4, which appears to be of the same "story" - here we have Moon in the centre, and also four guys holding various objects.

Hence, I think it unlikely that the figures represent seasons or ages. Or, rather, the question should be: if the "sunny" figures represent seasons or ages, then what do the "moony" figures stand for?

Hi Anton, I find it difficult to say if an idea is likely or unlikely in absolute terms. I prefer comparing different ideas, provisionally choosing the one that seems to explain the greatest number of elements.

The two diagrams f85r2 and f86v4 have different central subjects (the Sun and the Moon) and the four figures hold different objects. The objects (attributes) held by figures in this kind of allegories often are the only things that differentiate a "guy" from the others. If the objects are different, the intended subjects are typically different as well. In my opinion, the assumption that the two diagrams tell the same story is justified only if it leads to a better explanation for the two diagrams.

I have suggested in the past that they depict the four winds from Greek mythology (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). This links in with my phaseis of Ptomoly theory on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., where we see a bird that could well depict a Halycon calming the winds, and other indications on other folios.

(23-04-2016, 11:16 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view......
I used the "4 ages of man" only because the page is designated in those terms on the ninja wiki, not because I think that's what it shows.
.....

Since the thread is generally on folio 85r2 , I would like to present a guess to one of the figures. In my opinion it's a woman ( the only figure from which the whole body is shown ). She spins wool on a spinning wheel. In her left hand, she does not hold a chain or rope but a wool thread. The end of the thread looks like rings, because there is no more tension on it. In the picture below you can see what I mean.

The strong symbolic meaning of spinning women has already been mentioned in another thread.

British Library, The Luttrell Psalter, 1325-1335, Add MS 4213, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
For better resolution: Youtube, The Luttrell Psalter Film, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Bi3,

I've often wondered why there was a wiggly "something" coming out of her forward hand and what it might have to do with the "chain" shapes in her other hand... also the posture is distinctive. I think you have found a good parallel—a plausible explanation. There are many other references to spinning in the VMS and spinning was a very common metaphor in medieval days.