The Voynich Ninja

To field a team, two "Physicians" are compared here:



Lille, Bibliothèque municipale, Christine de Pizan, Epître Othea, 1460,
MS. 391, folio 39v (mirrored for better comparision ) <-> VMS f85r2

The matula was a symbol of the medical profession in the Middle Ages. Holding ( to the light ) was a pose that was often shown in images. In folio 85r2 the conspicuous, wide edge of the bottle neck can be seen.

Here's a replica (original from the 15th century):



Of course, a speculative guess, but still possible.

bi3mw,
I really like this comparison! The pose and object are very similar indeed, and the similarity even applies to the curls of hair emerging from under the "physician's" headgear.
ETA: this makes me wonder if, rather than four ages of man or seasons, this folio might depict four professions or fields of study.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (or lotium) and proposed as a medicine.

(26-04-2017, 09:20 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (or lotium) and proposed as a medicine.

Thanks,  Rene! 
I've knew much of interesting! 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(26-04-2017, 07:38 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.bi3mw,
I really like this comparison! The pose and object are very similar indeed, and the similarity even applies to the curls of hair emerging from under the "physician's" headgear.
ETA: this makes me wonder if, rather than four ages of man or seasons, this folio might depict four professions or fields of study.

One could also speculate that the four figures represent four branches of the medical science, or the portraits of four physicians, like those that can be seen in several medieval manuscripts.
The attached image is from the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (1441).

bi3mw's parallel is extremely interesting, still the context of the illustration and the structure of the diagram are suggestive of a cosmological subject. The four elements (or possibly the humors or the ages of man) seem more likely to me.

(Oops wrong thread - I wonder if a kind admin could move it to the "4 ages of man" thread)

There's also a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the Trinity College in Cambridge: MS O.2.48.
Neither the summary page, nor the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. says much about which type of herbal it is, but a look inside quickly makes it clear that this is a copy of the (Pseudo-)Apuleius herbal, with the usual accompanying books.

The interesting part is that it is full of drawings of doctors offering medicine to patients.

The MS is believed to be German, late 14th C.
It's on paper, and has the same size as the Voynich MS.

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I looked for group-of-four parallels also and a few years ago came across the legend that the medical school of Salerno was founded by four scholars from different cultures.

After that I tried to keep my eyes open for pictures of the doctors and discovered that everyone drew them differently, there wasn't any particular "template" (other than in manuscripts that are obvious copies). The urine beakers were perhaps the most common attribute, but there were also books, plants... a wide variety of items, and sometimes no items at all, just a man dressed in robes (with or without a name label).

Interesting to see another reference to Christine de Pizan in Post #11. And it seems to me that there is a certain point of differentiation that might be getting fuzzed over. The position represented by the character is proposed to be one of examination, of *holding up to the light* as was indicated. This is not the same as the *offering* position, where the person in robes holds forth a container for the man, or the doctor offers medicine to a patient. In this case the is another person expected to take the object. Whereas the examiner's focus is solely on the object.

There they are; the four ambiguities. They could be this or they could be that. Another demonstration that identification based only on visual similarities can be problematic throughout the VMs. So this is a physician examining a specimen? Then what? Figure out the other three. And then? Ambiguous visual similarity, on its own, is not sufficient. Something else is needed. Part of the solution to this problem in the medieval societies was implemented by the use of heraldry, both armorial and ecclesiastical.

The other part of visual evidence is the use of patterns and the creation of certain patterns. Patterns depend on placement. And placement is not subjective. Location in comparison to relevant tradition is an objective determination. The necessary positioning has been built into the VMs. It is the combination of visual similarity (masked), traditional placement, pairing and canting that confirm proposed identification and historical grounding. What number of such complex constructions would be necessary?

What I find interesting about this thread (proposing a possible link with physicians holding their varied piss observation pots aloft) is that the late fourteenth century was when the manuals on urinoscopy first became available translated from the Latin.

That is, one of these vernacular guides might be a good candidate for a plaintext block of the VMs' text.

What pre-1450 vernacular urinoscopy manuscripts are known? Do they tend to have a distinctive size / layout / structure? Do they tend to have distinctive drawings interleaved with the text?

(26-04-2017, 02:12 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view......
One could also speculate that the four figures represent four branches of the medical science, or the portraits of four physicians, like those that can be seen in several medieval manuscripts ...

Or, even more speculatively, a somewhat different grouping. - It is remarkable that the two physician-figures on f85r2 stand opposite each other. Which leads me to the question how "the woman at the spinning wheel" ( post #9 ) fits together with "the nose".

The representation of women at spinning wheels or with distaff was THE symbol of femininity. A large nose was the identification of masculinity, strength, energy, bravery and so on . Negative representations have always shown other related attributes.

All in all, one would have a man / woman pair and a healing physician / diagnostic physician pair. Unfortunately, I have no idea what to do with such a constellation. All I can contribute is this pretty You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Sorry, I could not resist