14-01-2026, 04:31 PM
@Rafal 
You've convinced me. 
You've convinced me. 14-01-2026, 04:39 PM
(14-01-2026, 08:17 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have just read several books on the ciphers of the period between the 13th and 16th centuries.
Could you say which books please. I have only read papers on historic encryptions and would like to know more.
14-01-2026, 05:18 PM
(14-01-2026, 04:39 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Could you say which books please. I have only read papers on historic encryptions and would like to know more.
Sure, but the books are in German. You can find these two free on the internet, but they're also in German – sorry...
Die Geheimschrift im Dienste der Päpstlichen Kurie von ihren Anfängen und bis zum ende des XVI. Jahhunderts
(Cryptography in the service of the Papal Curia from its beginnings to the end of the 16th century)
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(The beginnings of modern diplomatic secret writing)
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But you can find many examples of ciphers from that period (S. 171 ff first book). And I think that makes it clear that a Naibbe cipher is anachronistic. However, the Naibbe cipher is not about chronological classification, but merely about whether such a thing is even possible.
14-01-2026, 06:48 PM
14-01-2026, 09:20 PM
The solution will be radical - coming from the root of the VMs, from a deeper understanding of the idioms used by the artist as they have been discovered over recent years. Illustrations first, then the language.
The VMs starts out mysterious and soon becomes fabulous, the language is incomprehensible. However, there are a few things that have been discovered, like what they call Easter Eggs, but in this investigation, they are the 'best historical equivalents' (BHE). So, the best equivalent for the inverted T-O Earth in the VMs cosmos, f68v3, is the cosmic illustration in BNF Fr. 565, plus Harley 334. Not only are the representations 'structurally' similar, but the historical examples occur in the VMs C-14 time frame. And the common Parisian origins for both BHEs, implies a shared ideology with the VMs.
The real question is whether the investigator is sufficiently familiar with the information presented* by the artist. Presented* in a way with various peculiarities, to say the least, but still connected with historical reality, *if* that reality, that particular little tidbit of astronomy, or history, or heraldry, is known to the investigator. What does a nebuly line mean to the VMs artist, versus to those who are 'uninformed'? What is the armorial insignia of the pope who started the tradition of the cardinal's red galero? Little things that the artist knew and included, and the investigator never saw.
Things are not difficult because they are anachronistically complex, but they are intricate and they play on information that can be obscure, and obfuscated, and canted, and fabled, like mythical Melusine, etc.
The trick is to find a bridge from one of these VMs pages to a language investigation. White Aries.
The VMs starts out mysterious and soon becomes fabulous, the language is incomprehensible. However, there are a few things that have been discovered, like what they call Easter Eggs, but in this investigation, they are the 'best historical equivalents' (BHE). So, the best equivalent for the inverted T-O Earth in the VMs cosmos, f68v3, is the cosmic illustration in BNF Fr. 565, plus Harley 334. Not only are the representations 'structurally' similar, but the historical examples occur in the VMs C-14 time frame. And the common Parisian origins for both BHEs, implies a shared ideology with the VMs.
The real question is whether the investigator is sufficiently familiar with the information presented* by the artist. Presented* in a way with various peculiarities, to say the least, but still connected with historical reality, *if* that reality, that particular little tidbit of astronomy, or history, or heraldry, is known to the investigator. What does a nebuly line mean to the VMs artist, versus to those who are 'uninformed'? What is the armorial insignia of the pope who started the tradition of the cardinal's red galero? Little things that the artist knew and included, and the investigator never saw.
Things are not difficult because they are anachronistically complex, but they are intricate and they play on information that can be obscure, and obfuscated, and canted, and fabled, like mythical Melusine, etc.
The trick is to find a bridge from one of these VMs pages to a language investigation. White Aries.
14-01-2026, 11:46 PM
I would like to recommend the web site of Philip Neal: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
and in particular this page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
which has a well-researched list of references for early cryptography.
Both books by Aloys Meister, quoted above by JoJo_Jost, are on this list.
and in particular this page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
which has a well-researched list of references for early cryptography.
Both books by Aloys Meister, quoted above by JoJo_Jost, are on this list.