The Voynich Ninja

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Here is what I could get of the list of manuscripts linked by Rene: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

This is mostly based on the stemma and copies discussed in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by Heinz H. Menge, 1976
Since I don't know German, I used OCR and machine translation to read the text. I certainly missed/misunderstood something.

Menge (p.65)  believes that in 1429 (when the Regimen was written) Laufenberg was in Zofingen, Switzerland, 50 km South of Basel.

The Stemma is based on the text, in particular on lines missing from the different copies (e.g. the Berlin and Karlsruhe copies share several missing lines, but each includes lines missing in the other; so there likely was a lost copy "beta" from which both descend).

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Of the 7 sources in the stemma, 5 were illustrated and 2 have empty spaces for illustrations.
I checked some of the sources for verse 5965 containing the 1429 date and I could find it in (top to bottom) Karlsruhe, London, Munich, Augsburg. The final  lines appear to be missing from Berlin ms 1191.

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I don't have time to go into the details now, but my impression is that (similar to the text) the illustrations in Karlsruhe, Berlin and Augsburg (the three sources with the old woman with staff and rosary) share a single source but are not directly related to each other: each misses parts that are common to the other two.
Since Karlsruhe, Berlin and Augsburg share the old woman with staff and rosary, the stemma suggests that the illustration was included in the original "alpha" source.

(M) Munich, Laufenberg, Heinrich: Regimen - BSB Cgm 377 -Cod. Germ. 377- (Breisgau, 1470 ca)
The illustrations were never added. Empty spaces for 87 illustrations with a short description of the expected image. No banners, no frames.
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Descriptions for the seasons and physician illustrations:
Spring (p.149): ein hübsch junpfrow (a pretty young maiden)
Summer (p.151): ein junge frow (a young woman)
Autumn (p.153): ein bestanden frow (a mature woman)
Winter (p.155): ein alt wip by dem fùrr (an old woman by the fire)
(p.157): ein artzatt der wasser besicht (a doctor examines the water)

(B) Berlin, germ. fol. 1191 (Strasbourg 1460 ca). Most illustrations in rectangular frames with titles in banners. "Winter" as old woman with staff and rosary; the other three seasons/ages were not illustrated. Physician with desk and book.
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(scans also at Library of Congress)

(L) London, The Wellcome Institute of the History of Medicine. MS 458 (1450-1499). Illustrations were cut out.
"This manuscript was intended for everyday use. The unpretentious illustrations, as far as can be said for the only three miniature fragments that have survived, as well as the unpretentious script, which uses more abbreviations than most other 'Regimen' manuscripts, indicate this."
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Only 3 partially preserved illustrations in rectangular frames (p.100 -Taurus-, 247, 290).
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(D) Darmstadt, Hs. 2781, (1450-1499).
Empty circular frames for illustrations that were never added. Illustration titles in banners.
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(Z) Zurich, Ms. C 102b, (canton of Aargau? Switzerland, 1450).
Illustrations in rectangular frames; fewer (24) and possibly different from those in the other sources. Several missing pages. "Probably the oldest surviving copy", dated 1450 in illustration f.120v. "The manuscript could have been located in Aarau in the 16th century, as folio 131v (200v in the old foliation) contains a reference to the name for 'Serpyllum' commonly used in Aarau." I was unable to find illustrations corresponding to the four ages/seasons.
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(K) Karlsruhe Cod. 2790 (Lower Alsace? ~Strasbourg 1455 ca).
(this is the manuscript pointed out by Koen)
62 illustrations, mostly in circular frames; with no banners. "Autumn" as old woman with staff and rosary. "Summer" and "Spring": woman with flower. Physician with no desk/book.
"The calendar can be attributed to the Diocese of Basel, and the language points to Alsace. The manuscript was therefore likely created in Lower Alsace. It could have been written around 1455, as some examples in the tables refer to 1453 and 1456"
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(A) Augsburg printed edition by Erhard Ratdolt (Augsburg, 1491).  "Winter" as old woman with staff and rosary; the other three seasons as different versions of a woman holding a flower. Physician with desk and book.
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A few later manuscripts not included in the diagram:

(U) Budapest University, Cod Germ. 5, early/mid 16th Century.
The text depends on the 1491 printed edition (A).
No scans available?

(b) Berlin, Staatsbibliothek, Preußischer Kulturbesitz, Ms, germ. fol. 103 (1550 ca)
Chapters organized according to the correspondence between the zodiac and parts of the human body. Illustrations of the zodiac signs. The bloodletting section of the fifth chapter of the "Regimen" is inserted into the fifth book. Verses 3481 to 3884 are taken verbatim (v.3570 is missing), verses 3885 to 3924 are taken over in prose. 
It seems that the relevant passage (from v.1800 ca) is not included.
No scans available?

(m) Munich, University Library. 4° Cod. ms. 745 (1482-1516)
Verses from the "Regimen'' were added to the calendar by a later hand. They are taken from the 1491 Augsburg print edition (A).
No scans available?

(S) Strasbourg , City Library, Cod. B 141 [burned in 1870]

Other manuscripts not mentioned by Mende:

Munich , Staatsbibl., Cgm 6351 (Zofingen, 1456)
Only contains a fragment of the Regimen: Bl. 55r-68v = Heinrich Laufenberg : 'Regimen' (v. 609-1022, so it does not include the relevant passage which starts at verse 1800 ca).

Geneva , Bibliotheca of Geneva, Ms. Suppl. 1307 (15th century)
Only contains a fragment of the Regimen: Pages 13r-34v = Heinrich Laufenberg 'Regimen' (Chapter 1). I am not sure if this includes the relevant passage (starting at verse 1800 ca). The relevant passage begins at Chapter 4 (the four parts of the year, from verse 1800 ca), so it is not included in this fragment.

Finally, here is a map where I collected locations for the different sources. Aarau is mentioned in a later (16th century) marginal note in the Zurich ms; the ms is dated 1450 in one of the illustrations. Augsburg is the 1491 printed text. I think Strasbourg (Berlin ms) and Breisgau (Munich ms) were inferred from paper watermarks, but I am not sure. I understand that the Karlsruhe ms is assigned to the Strasbourg area (Lower Alsace) for linguistic reasons.

EDIT: though Heinrich Laufenberg You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I added Laufenburg to the map as the place of origin of his family.

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(11-01-2025, 01:46 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I've gotten much more critical and pessimistic about matching VM images over the years, but this sent shivers down my spine. I knew it was something I had never seen before.

But now comes the weird thing: the doctor isn't part of a sequence at all! He just happens to appear after the four seasons in this particular tradition! The image of the medical practitioner simply introduces the section about the four temperaments.

This should be warning you not to throw caution overboard, unless you assume that the VM was created by copying random illustrations that are not even part of a logical sequence, just because they happen to be in a particular order in a manuscript tradition, which makes zero sense.

The small bottle is not a urine bottle, for obvious reasons. The doctor is not a doctor: the painter created a cap that clearly wasn't there at the time the human figures were drawn in iron gall ink.

The old hunched woman is interesting, despite the inexplicable transformation of the rosary into several fluffy rings and the cane into something small and unidentifiable. I didn't see the resemblance at first but you convinced me. The sequence, on the other hand... if we had four good sequential matches I would be convinced, but we don't have them. Not even two.

Pseudo-recognizing links that don't exist anywhere else than in your imagination is called You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. A type of low-level delusion, common in Voynich research. Please, stay critical. Play with your delusions, don't get played by them.
Show me one better sequence in any other manuscript.
(11-01-2025, 11:34 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Pseudo-recognizing links that don't exist anywhere else than in your imagination is called You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. A type of low-level delusion, common in Voynich research. Please, stay critical. Play with your delusions, don't get played by them.

It is standard practice it seems for people to find an image in a medieval manuscript and draw a parallel between an image in the Voynich manuscript. Sometimes these parallels will be correct and sometimes they will be false parallels. However I would defend Koen and others trying to find such parallels and suggesting those parallels. As I have stated elsewhere I tend to think the more ideas and theories put out there the better. Inevitably some of those theories will be wrong. However if we try to restrict or censor or ignore some then we may miss something valuable. Any idea exists on a probability spectrum of being correct, so any idea may be right or wrong. I think we should encourage people to pursue their ideas as they may hit on something important.
(11-01-2025, 02:07 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Show me one better sequence in any other manuscript.

That surely is not a criteria for determining the correctness of your theory.

I think nablator's scepticism is valuable. However it shouldn't deter you from developing your ideas as you may arrive at an important idea.
(11-01-2025, 02:07 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Show me one better sequence in any other manuscript.

Should there be one? Random sequences don't matter anyway, there should be a logic: 4 winds, 4 ages... all plausible but not convincingly close to any known manuscript. AFAIK nothing similar to f85r2 was ever discovered in manuscripts even at the most basic level of description: 4 human figures around a spiral/Sun in the center, weird geysers between them.
We so need an art historian. Cry
(11-01-2025, 02:34 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.AFAIK nothing similar to f85r2 was ever discovered in manuscripts even on the most basic level: 4 human figures around a spiral/Sun in the center.

Well, not a spiral, but there is an example of a sun in the middle ( found by ChatGPT, no source given ) Wink

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(11-01-2025, 02:52 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, not a spiral, but there is an example of a sun in the middle ( found by ChatGPT, no source given ):

Good try, but it's fake. AI-generated obviously. Please tell me it's a joke.
(11-01-2025, 03:51 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Please tell me it's a joke.
Yes, it is. But apart from the excessive evenness, it's well done, isn't it? Smile I would imagine a direct hit to be something like that. However, it's too good to be true.
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