The Voynich Ninja

Hi Ruby Novacna, Helmut Winklers' thread -> "The Voynich-Ms as a concatenation of abbreviations" ,can be found here You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(29-06-2024, 03:12 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That looks like a macron on the "9". According to the first list of scribal abbreviations I found, in Latin this could mean "quondam".

All right, I didn't know.

Cappelli has it for "quondam" with two dots: [attachment=8765] or curled like this: [attachment=8766]

Or it could be "contra": [attachment=8767]

(deleted for clarity) - ChatGPT talking rubbish on macrons

Was working on something else but got sucked back into this page now.. 

I can explain away this myself, the point is just that the voynich gets real squirrely in parts of these pages, which is what made me think maybe this is a new scribe

1. m faded bits, missed the tail
2. al - forgot to curve the l tail around flick of a
3. a (down as "o" on voynichese site) and did the bottom join up angled wrongly, probably writing at weird angle.. can't explain the extra bit.. attempt to fix it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (edit) Maybe it was the rare ^ to start with.. then they did a "a" over the top... and messed it up a bit..? (edit 2) Looking at the "a"s above it sort of makes sense as a correction, would think you would just do it a bit thicker to cover up mistake though

I read the three words with arrows (reduced to basic Eva) as:

shedy :  here the "d" appears as a variant that can be seen quite a few times. No idea of course if that has a special meaning, or is just a slightly different way of writing a standard "d".

chedal :  the final "l" can be seen to be the curve/line equivalent of Eva-"y". A short back stroke, with a flourish going down from the top.

shopcho : the last character is indeed garbled, and could also be an "a" or something else.
While words do not typically end in "o", they are still relatively common, and essentially all of them also occur with a final "y" instead of "o". Not sure what that means of course.

Hi ReneZ

Thanks for input

I went with "m" as the scribe had no issue writing "d" curved all around here, but same could be said for "m" I guess. I suppose its just one to file under "weird" and not sure if special in some way



Same for "y"/"l" I guess, just not sure why it suddenly became a problem, specifically under the "d"/"m" that also became an issue here



Same theme for "o", why now? marked o's in red all seem totally normal, there's one in the same "vord", you could easy just do a "o" over this but they added this kinked line, I think the correction was to imitate the right side of "a" but yeah, either way I don't think one or the other for any of these will mean much, its just a bit odd there's a small space where the normal nice flow got a bit squirrely



(edit) - Ignore bottom left "o".. teaches me for rushing! - Also just thought "squirrely" probably makes no sense to most - something like "rushed/odd" combined, "lack of care"

(29-06-2024, 07:54 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(29-06-2024, 03:12 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That looks like a macron on the "9". According to the first list of scribal abbreviations I found, in Latin this could mean "quondam".

All right, I didn't know.

Cappelli has it for "quondam" with two dots:  or curled like this:

Or it could be "contra":

I was looking on my phone, so I may have missed the two dots. So would the 9 with macron be kind of a redundant way to write something like "con"?

(30-06-2024, 09:57 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I was looking on my phone, so I may have missed the two dots. So would the 9 with macron be kind of a redundant way to write something like "con"?

Yes the macron would be totally redundant. The most common uses of the "9" abbreviation are con/com, -us, -ost ("p9" = post). "Contra" would be typically abbreviated as "9t~" = con+t+ra. Lots of rare variants though: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.= The important information that is missing in Cappelli is the frequency. Most listed abbreviations are rare or were no longer used by the 15th century. 

What ChatGPT says from its total lack of knowledge on the subject of 9+macron is wrong. If it exists at all in a Latin ms. its meaning would be unclear.

couple of marks above "o" in MS I noted today while looking for something else