The Voynich Ninja

(17-10-2023, 01:13 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When the diagram follows these rules for each planet, it is astrological, not astronomical, so the date doesn't matter I suppose.

I was looking for this particular sky configuration on different dates in my article to exclude (or confirm) the possibility that this particular arrangement became popular at the end of the XV century because it actually occurred in the sky on some date. It would be a very remarkable super-strong astrological configuration - each planed in its own domicile. According to my computation this particular configuration never happens between 3000 BC and 3000AD. Would be nice to have it independently confirmed.

(17-10-2023, 01:13 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mars - Aries & Scorpio
Venus - Taurus & Libra
Mercury - Gemini & Virgo
Moon - Cancer
Sun - Leo
Jupiter - Sagittarius & Pisces
Saturn - Capricorn & Aquarius

There are only two solutions that match the 4--1-1-1- pattern in f67r2:

[attachment=7776]

oshfdk Wrote:It looks as if the golden moons show night domiciles and the red moons daytime domiciles, but there is a problem.

But there is no problem (day = Sun and night = Moon) with the second solution if we assume that the golden moons show day domiciles and the red moons show night domiciles.

[attachment=7777]

It is logical that light yellow is day and dark red is night, I think.

The second solution in f67r2 is:
Venus = okain am
Mercury = opcholdy
Sun = ofar oeoldan
Moon = ytoaiin
Mars = yfain
Saturn = dolchsody
Jupiter = okal

(as in your You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..)

(17-10-2023, 04:26 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But there is no problem (day = Sun and night = Moon) with the second solution if we assume that the golden moons show day domiciles and the red moons show night domiciles.

Could you spell this out, both solutions and the day/night domiciles? It could be I'm missing something obvious. As far as I remember, when I tried both solutions, the domiciles problem didn't go away, because when you switch the Sun and the Moon, all other planets also switch between the day and the night domiciles.

The two solutions are for Zodiac going in opposite directions, right? This switches day and night domicile locations on the chart.

(17-10-2023, 04:56 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The two solutions are for Zodiac going in opposite directions, right? This switches day and night domicile locations on the chart.

Yes, the sequence of the Moon/Sun is switched, nothing else changes.

Quote:Could you spell this out, both solutions and the day/night domiciles? It could be I'm missing something obvious.

1st solution (wrong):
Venus - Taurus
Mercury - Gemini
Moon - Cancer
Sun - Leo
Mars - Scorpio
Saturn - Capricorn
Jupiter - Pisces

2nd solution (correct):
Venus - Libra
Mercury - Virgo
Sun - Leo
Moon - Cancer
Mars - Aries
Saturn - Aquarius
Jupiter - Sagittarius

In both solutions the 4 planets together are Venus, Mercury, Moon/Sun, Sun/Moon, then two spaces, then Mars, etc.
But your D/N on the right are the opposite of what they are on the left (2nd line: Venus N, 3rd line: Mercury D, etc):

(17-10-2023, 09:56 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I've also found some charts in a 1451 MS, I can't understand the logic of the upper right chart, it lists the planets and the signs as if randomly ordered?

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Full res: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

That diagram illustrates the four elements. Months are mapped to the elements according to the four seasons (Spring/Air, Summer/Fire, Autumn/Earth, Winter/Water). Traditionally, zodiac signs are assigned to the four elements by linking four consecutive signs to the four different elements, so that signs belonging to the same element are 120 degrees away. Since the two systems for months and signs are different, the result of showing them together on a single diagram can only be puzzling.

[attachment=7778]

In the zodiac on the right (from the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.), the four elements are represented by the background colour of each sign (e.g. red=fire for Aries, Leo, Sagittarius). A much clearer solution in my opinion.

(17-10-2023, 05:16 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(17-10-2023, 04:56 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The two solutions are for Zodiac going in opposite directions, right? This switches day and night domicile locations on the chart.

Yes, the sequence of the Moon/Sun is switched, nothing else changes.

Quote:Could you spell this out, both solutions and the day/night domiciles? It could be I'm missing something obvious.

In both solutions the 4 planets together are Venus, Mercury, Moon/Sun, Sun/Moon, then two spaces, then Mars, etc.
But your D/N on the right are the opposite of what they are on the left (2nd line: Venus N, 3rd line: Mercury D, etc):

So, how does this solve the day/night problem? There are two solutions:

CW Zodiac (line 10 of your spreadsheet):

Venus = okain am in Taurus (night, red moon)
Mercury = opcholdy in Gemini (day, golden moon)
Moon = ofar oeoldan in Cancer (golden moon we take as day)
Sun = ytoaiin in Leo (red moon we take as night)

CCW Zodiac (line 23 of your spreadsheet):

Venus = okain am in Libra (day, red moon)
Mercury = opcholdy in Virgo (night, golden moon)
Sun = ofar oeoldan in Leo (golden moon we take as night)
Moon = ytoaiin in Cancer (red moon we take as day)

As you can see, either way the Sun is marked by the night moon face and the Moon is marked by the day moon face, that's what I call the night/day domicile problem.

(edit, sorry, I put cw and ccw the other way around)

There is an easier way to look at this. The very pattern of night and day domiciles was created in a way that would make the domiciles iterate between day and night, and putting the Sun at the beginning of the day chain and the Moon at the beginning of the night chain. So, whenever there is a break in D-N-D-N-D-N pattern, as in the lower right of f67r2, it it impossible to match this to day and night pattern correctly.

(17-10-2023, 05:30 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So, how does this solve the day/night problem? There are two solutions:

CW Zodiac (line 10 of your spreadsheet):

Venus = okain am in Taurus (night, red moon)
Mercury = opcholdy in Gemini (day, golden moon)
Moon = ofar oeoldan in Cancer (golden moon we take as day)
Sun = ytoaiin in Leo (red moon we take as night)


CCW Zodiac (line 23 of your spreadsheet):

Venus = okain am in Libra (day, red moon)
Mercury = opcholdy in Virgo (night, golden moon)
Sun = ofar oeoldan in Leo (golden moon we take as night)
Moon = ytoaiin in Cancer (red moon we take as day)

As you can see, either way the Sun is marked by the night moon face and the Moon is marked by the day moon face, that's what I call the night/day domicile problem.

Why take golden moon as night and red moon as day only in the 2nd solution (CCW Zodiac)?

If we choose golden moon as day (because it is not the moon face that is painted, it is the sky, dark red for night, light yellow for day makes sense) then the 2nd solution only matches golden / day = Sun and dark red / night = Moon.

(17-10-2023, 05:25 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That diagram illustrates the four elements. Months are mapped to the elements according to the four seasons (Spring/Air, Summer/Fire, Autumn/Earth, Winter/Water). Traditionally, zodiac signs are assigned to the four elements by linking four consecutive signs to the four different elements, so that signs belonging to the same element are 120 degrees away. Since the two systems for months and signs are different, the result of showing them together on a single diagram can only be puzzling.

Thank you! My question was mostly about the planet labels in some strange order.

I guess, the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Saturn are next to their domiciles. But Jupiter, Mercury and Venus look misplaced, or are they arranged according to their elements? I don't remember the element assignments of the planets.