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And we all know what that is... a huge anachronism. (Joke)
Seriously, though, I also find the hanging loop very interesting. Given how delicate these loops are, the device can't be very heavy.
(01-12-2025, 11:58 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe a good point to revive the comparison with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The modern examples have a remarkable resemblance with the more elaborate containers in the MS, but I have never been able to find original or at least older examples.
Google searches return many more examples, mostly on commercial sites.
From what I could find out, I think these designs are modern. Definitely for Egypt anyway, or somewhere selling "Egyptian style" perfume bottles.
The tops are a "leaf stopper/finial", the tip of the leaf has been twisted.
Sometimes this is called a "twisted leaf" on descriptions but it doesn't seem like an official term.
My hunch is that with some of these vessels we see an Eastern Influence, which would be expected for the time if they are meant to be
fancy.
The place to look for something like this I think, in 14/15C, is Murano glass (aka - Venetian glass, but they were kicked out of Venice for fear of fires at the time),
though even with the fanciest of the fancy, its hard to find anything this delicate documented or surviving. I'll keep an eye out, but until now I've found nothing.
(02-12-2025, 06:14 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Seriously, though, I also find the hanging loop very interesting. Given how delicate these loops are, the device can't be very heavy.
It depends what they decided to leave out. If some are meant to be censer-like things, the loops on top of them can be very small.
1477 Swiss
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(01-12-2025, 05:55 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, not exactly, but very similar. Here:
(The first image is rotated 180 degrees.)
Three of the four nymphs also seem to be in upside down vessels. There seems to be some chance the one that is not, is standing in a partly later addition
thingy (at least it may not have been finished before the writing was added).
Anyway, these ones with fancy lids are Q15. You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. has 3 vessels and the lids seem to match the nymphs lids fairly well. If we just say "heart>clover>ball".
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(04-12-2025, 03:22 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Three of the four nymphs also seem to be in upside down vessels. There seems to be some chance the one that is not, is standing in a partly later addition thingy (at least it may not have been finished before the writing was added).
Anyway, these ones with fancy lids are Q15. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has 3 vessels and the lids seem to match the nymphs lids fairly well. If we just say "heart>clover>ball".
Yes, that's interesting and suggests that many of the other theories are becoming less likely and that perhaps the containers/vessels need to be classified differently after all.
Another good comparison for apothecary jars (of the more simple ones)
"Miniature (no. 37.181) from 15th century manuscript in Dresden: Galen, and assistant with a pestle and mortar, and a scribe in an apothecary's shop"
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I have been finding a few interesting objects in goldsmith workshops
Image snipped from,
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A Goldsmith in his Shop
Petrus Christus Netherlandish
1449
The bird is a fun coincidence with the looped neck, but the bit I was looking at is the arches of the gilt work, the bands, the lid shape, the twisted lines up the thin stem to top, the 2 ball shapes on top
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A bit later, but the tiered vessels in the back interested me (1576)
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Anyone know what these are?
Nope, but contextually all the other items on the back wall are tools except maybe for the ?pendants? hanging in the window.
I've exhausted all my ideas for functional things involving tools
I've seen them in a number of metal workshop images, they are always "top shelf".. but I can't work it out.
The guy at the table looks like he might be using the bottom half of one, but its just a guess
Bluetoes101 Wrote:The guy at the table looks like he might be using the bottom half of one, but its just a guess
Yeah, that container like thing on the table -- does look the bottom half of the top shelf item.
It looks like its filled with something like thin sticks, could be a container for drill bits or a big brush with the bristles facing up.
My absolute total guess for the container on the table is a container for thin wooden sticks of different lengths for delicate work,
like pushing gold foil or thin gold plate into corners and the like.
This book looks like a good resource.
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Goldsmith Instruction In The Traditional Way: Just Pointy Sticks And Bludgeoning Instruments – 7 May 2021 - Loyd Ontiveroz (Author)