When I started to develop my hypothesis on the concatenation of abbreviations in the Voynich Ms. a few years ago, I looked around for similar manuscripts - Last autumn, the former director of the Oberösterreichisches Landesarchiv in Linz, Gerhart Marckhgott, posted on the Klaus Schmeh blog that he had seen the same scripts when he was working on the edition of the Acta Pataviensia. They were notes from the Vatican archives, Konzepte/drafts, the problem was that the texts had been shortened to such an extent that deciphering them became a guessing game in the sense of the word. I contacted GM and he confirmed the fact, unfortunately he could no longer give the exact location of the find.
I am only writing this post to say that I have more confidence in the powers of observation of a medievalist who has worked on such editions - I am one myself - than in those of people outside the field.
(12-06-2023, 04:17 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am only writing this post to say that I have more confidence in the powers of observation of a medievalist who has worked on such editions - I am one myself - than in those of people outside the field.
Helmut, in what point do you see a contradiction between the previous posts and an expert opinion ?
(12-06-2023, 05:33 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (12-06-2023, 04:17 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am only writing this post to say that I have more confidence in the powers of observation of a medievalist who has worked on such editions - I am one myself - than in those of people outside the field.
Helmut, in what point do you see a contradiction between the previous posts and an expert opinion ?
Maybe it is my fault, but most of the posts have nothing to do with what I am talking about
(12-06-2023, 07:16 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (12-06-2023, 05:33 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (12-06-2023, 04:17 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am only writing this post to say that I have more confidence in the powers of observation of a medievalist who has worked on such editions - I am one myself - than in those of people outside the field.
Helmut, in what point do you see a contradiction between the previous posts and an expert opinion ?
Maybe it is my fault, but most of the posts have nothing to do with what I am talking about
Well, then you need to explain yourself more clearly.
Also, you need to locate this document in the Vatican archives. You can't just expect us to believe in its existence and that it is what you say it is.
You can't just appeal to your claimed authority and expect us to believe your theory just on your say so.
I have no doubt that the Vatican documents are real and that it will be of great interest.
However, it is unfortunate indeed that we can't see them, as the extent to which the script is 'the same' will remain uncertain.
I went to the comment in Klaus Schmeh's blog, and I suppose that it is OK to include it here:
Quote:Ich bin zufällig auf das Buch aufmerksam geworden und bin fasziniert, denn das Schriftbild ist unglaublich ähnlich vielen Konzeptschriften (“Händen”) in der päpstlichen Kanzlei in Avignon (14. Jh.), an denen ich jahrelang editorisch arbeitete. Selbst die Beschaffenheit der Tinte, die Feder- und Strichführung etc. etc. sind verblüffend ähnlich. In solchen Texten erfasst man nicht Buchstaben, sondern immer nur Wörter. Aber diese Erfahrung hilft hier wohl auch niemandem weiter.
So, in my opinion, this is not necessarily the same writing, but I agree that this is highly interesting comparison material. I would really be happy to know more about this.
I haven't been able yet to locate these notes, my hope was tha someone of the many users has seen them and remembered
He says that there are "many" documents which are similar, so you should not have so much difficulty locating at least some of these documents. Is the person who wrote this still alive? Are you happy to give out their name? He should at least remember where to find the 14th century documents of the Avignon chancellery.
I suspect that there is some superficial similarity to the Voynich. Maybe they are written in Capelli style shorthand or even possibly in cipher such as in Gabriel de Lavinde's cipher ledger, which was a product of the Avignon chancellery. What is important is the specifics.
These Konzeptschriften (translation=?), could they have been edited in there? The name of one of the editors matches the blog comment poster's name, and Urban V is the 6th Avignon pope.
ACTA Pataviensia Austriaca Vatikanische Akten Zur Geschichte Des Bistums Passau Und Der Herzoge Von Osterreich (1342-1378). Urban V. (1362-1370) - Publikationen Des Osterreichischen Kulturinstitutes in ROM
Paperback (31 Dec 1996) | Latin
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There are more. For example for the last Avignon pope Gregory XI:
Acta Pataviensia Austriaca: Vatikanische Akten zur Geschichte des Bistums Passau und der Herzöge von Österreich (1342-1378): Band IV: Gregor XI. (1370-1378)
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Someone who has access to JSTOR could easily download the PDFs and search them for any reference to "Konzeptschriften"...
(13-06-2023, 09:08 AM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.He says that there are "many" documents which are similar, so you should not have so much difficulty locating at least some of these documents. Is the person who wrote this still alive? Are you happy to give out their name? He should at least remember where to find the 14th century documents of the Avignon chancellery.
I don't think the person oncerned is really interested in getting mixed up in V. research