The Voynich Ninja

I am ashamed to remark there is a typo in the title of the threa, conatenation instead of concatenation, could one of the moderators correct it? Thank you

(24-05-2023, 07:53 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The line is not a fuctional unit

Denying basic observations (like frequencies) is not going to solve anything.

(24-05-2023, 08:23 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(24-05-2023, 07:53 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The line is not a fuctional unit

Denying basic observations (like frequencies) is not going to solve anything.

I am not sure if I understand what you mean, but if there is functional unit, it is the socalled word. Basic observtions cn be deceptive

(24-05-2023, 09:38 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am not sure if I understand what you mean, but if there is functional unit, it is the socalled word. Basic observtions cn be deceptive

Whether the observations are named LAAFU or something less fancy (like line patterns), the fact of their presence is not going to go away by ignoring them. Then there are paragraph-level observations that are even more puzzling.

Anyway, abbreviations make no sense in a text that has nearly 7000 dy and other very frequent patterns: they would be the first to be shortened if the author(s) cared about available space enough to write a "concatenation of abbreviations". Not extending the character set to have enough abbreviations symbols to cover the frequent patterns is surprising: if Avicenna had to be credited thousands of times, the authors would abbreviate the name to a single A-like symbol. I remember seeing such a symbol for Aristotle in a XVth century ms instead of the more usual ari+macron. And that's only the h0 entropy problem (not nearly enough symbols for abbreviations).

(23-05-2023, 06:34 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi, there, I found some interesting Latin text with abbreviations. Can anyone tell me what they represent. 

Hello, the left picture I read as follows with (90% certainty):

o(mnia) d(omi)ne se(m)per bona crucificas (?) Benedictis et (=7) prestas nobis Per ipsu(m) et (=7) 
Au(m..) ipso et (=7) in ipso est tibi dco (dicito?) pri(m)o i(m)pote(n)ti  i(n) vnitate spus (?) s(anc)ti o(mn)is
honor et(=7) gloria.
Per o(mnia) secula secoloru(m). Orem(us = 9). Preceptis salutaribus moniti: et divina institutio(n)e 
formati audemus.

Sorry, I did not learn Latin. Maybe someone else can complete and translate the text.  The other pictures are hardly
legible to me (Textura script was at that time - and still is - quite difficult to read, thats why the gothic cursive was invented later).

(24-05-2023, 06:18 PM)monika55 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(23-05-2023, 06:34 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi, there, I found some interesting Latin text with abbreviations. Can anyone tell me what they represent. 

Hello, the left picture I read as follows with (90% certainty):

... omnia domine, semper bona creas, Sanctificas, Vivificas, Benedicis, et prestas nobis. Per ipsum, et cum ipso, et in ipso, est tibi deo patri omnipotenti, in unitate spiritus sancti, omnis honor et gloria per omnia secula seculorum. Preceptis salutaribus moniti et divina institutione formati audemus...

2nd has many v~ (maybe one per start of verse, with only the starting words, in a list)

3rd has parts of Matthew chapter 2 (Gregorian chant) with some abbreviations that I don't recognize:
...gi magno alleluia.<per or par something... paragraphus? Benedictus? ad m??? a???>
Lux de luce apparuisti xpe (Christe) cui magi munera offerunt, alleluia alleluia alleluia. <paragraphus magi ad b??? a???>
Vidimus stellam eius in oriente et venimus cum muneribus adorare dominum. <paragraphus Benedictus? ad ???>
Interrogabat Magos Herodes: Quod signum vidistis super natum regem?
Stellam vidimus fulgentem, cuius splendor illuminat mundum.

I cheated by googling the beginning to get the rest, but it is mostly lightly abbreviated, not difficult to figure out.

(24-05-2023, 06:59 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Lux de luce apparuisti xpe (Christe) cui magi munera offerunt, alleluia alleluia alleluia

Nice word repetitions....

@Helmut
I have something there. Is it perhaps in this way where you think?
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And here is something in German. In the lower part

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(24-05-2023, 03:30 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(24-05-2023, 09:38 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am not sure if I understand what you mean, but if there is functional unit, it is the socalled word. Basic observtions cn be deceptive

Whether the observations are named LAAFU or something less fancy (like line patterns), the fact of their presence is not going to go away by ignoring them. Then there are paragraph-level observations that are even more puzzling.

Anyway, abbreviations make no sense in a text that has nearly 7000 dy and other very frequent patterns: they would be the first to be shortened if the author(s) cared about available space enough to write a "concatenation of abbreviations". Not extending the character set to have enough abbreviations symbols to cover the frequent patterns is surprising: if Avicenna had to be credited thousands of times, the authors would abbreviate the name to a single A-like symbol. I remember seeing such a symbol for Aristotle in a XVth century ms instead of the more usual ari+macron. And that's only the h0 entropy problem (not nearly enough symbols for abbreviations).

1) The problem I have with all these observations, beginnimg with Currier is that no one can give me an explanaion

2) d'9 is an abbr. (likely for dictum), there seems to be an a abbr. for somehing else, he abbreviated Avicenna as aui or au and a much better example for name abbr. are the sigla for the glössatores in legal mss.

I think to "d'9" is a short form but not an abbreviation.
Written out "de unum" ( from one ).
I am thinking of the apostrophe.
"9" is basically a number word.
In VM " 8 9 " not "89".