I like to keep my personal theory as broad and vague as possible. I used to have a more specific theory, but noticed after a while that this caused me to become more vulnerable to confirmation bias and similar issues. Still, it is impossible to study anything without having some expectations, but I attempt to hold these beliefs as loosely as possible, so I can drop them at a moment's notice.
Currently I think, based on the imagery, that we are seeing an exercise in information processing. The medieval period was keen on metaphors, reading one thing in terms of another. In fact, some of the most popular manuscript traditions do exactly this. Bestiaries show how the natural world reflects biblical truths. And the immensely popular Speculum Humanae Salvationis explains how the old testament is actually about the new testament.
I don't think the VM relates directly to any of these traditions, but it may be the result of the same kind of mindset, one that loves sustained metaphors. For an example, I refer to the paper Cary and I published at the conference, where we pick out one example of a sustained visual metaphor: "the heavens are like a tent".
I would not be surprised if it turns out that the manuscript was made in the context of the maker(s)' education, but I have no more specific idea about this, nor have I ever had a preferred type of author, let alone a specific figure.
Why was it encoded?
Why can't we decipher the encoding?
Why aren't there any other manuscripts from around the time that are encoded in the same way?
As I have toldyou before, it was not enoded and this is the reason why decodimg methods do not work
I have heard from a reliable soure that there are similar mss./notes from the Papal chancery at Avignon
(18-05-2023, 03:54 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have heard from a reliable soure that there are similar mss./notes from the Papal chancery at Avignon
Well, then I do hope you can locate them and share them with us.
Until such time I would still assert that I believe in my opinion that the Voynich manuscript was written in cipher. I know you don't believe that. We disagree.
Hi, Helmut, did you know that during the Avignon papacy, the Charterhouse Seitz (Žiče, Slovenia) was temporary the grand priory of the Carthusian order, and that Stephen Macone from Siena was a general prior. During the Basel Council, the clergy in Slovenia was switching alliance, therefore it would be possible that some material from Slovenian charterhouses was tranfered to France, since only a fraction of the manuscripts from Seitz library (which at the time was the second largest library in Europe, after) has been preserved. It has been documented that Nicholas Kempf, a Carthusian prior from Strasbourg wrote over 30 books and only 5 have been found and preserved.
As for the VM code: I found and matched almost all VM glyphs to the Latin letters in the 15th century manuscripts, except the four tall glyphs, two of which are already correctly transcribed in EVA, and the other two are missing, just as the combination of Latin SU or german SW and ZW is missing.
The problem is not in transcription, but rather in the phonetic spelling in a language that existed before in an oral form, and in the lack of comparative material. It is possible that the Slovenian language was written down perhaps as a teaching tool for the priests, in the expectation of the Church reforms that would allow liturgy in vernacular languages, however after German princes reconciled with Rome, that hope vanished, the reformers were regarded as heretics, and their work disappered. Because of this pre-Reformation movement, Slovenian students were not allowed to study at Vienna and most of them went to study in Tubingen, where first Slovenian books were printed in 1550. Naturally, the German influence is in the writing convention and in vocabulary.
It would be interesting to know if a similar script could be found anywhere.
(18-05-2023, 07:13 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi, Helmut, did you know that during the Avignon papacy, the Charterhouse Seitz (Žiče, Slovenia) was temporary the grand priory of the Carthusian order, and that Stephen Macone from Siena was a general prior. During the Basel Council, the clergy in Slovenia was switching alliance, therefore it would be possible that some material from Slovenian charterhouses was tranfered to France, since only a fraction of the manuscripts from Seitz library (which at the time was the second largest library in Europe, after) has been preserved. It has been documented that Nicholas Kempf, a Carthusian prior from Strasbourg wrote over 30 books and only 5 have been found and preserved.
As for the VM code: I found and matched almost all VM glyphs to the Latin letters in the 15th century manuscripts, except the four tall glyphs, two of which are already correctly transcribed in EVA, and the other two are missing, just as the combination of Latin SU or german SW and ZW is missing.
The problem is not in transcription, but rather in the phonetic spelling in a language that existed before in an oral form, and in the lack of comparative material. It is possible that the Slovenian language was written down perhaps as a teaching tool for the priests, in the expectation of the Church reforms that would allow liturgy in vernacular languages, however after German princes reconciled with Rome, that hope vanished, the reformers were regarded as heretics, and their work disappered. Because of this pre-Reformation movement, Slovenian students were not allowed to study at Vienna and most of them went to study in Tubingen, where first Slovenian books were printed in 1550. Naturally, the German influence is in the writing convention and in vocabulary.
It would be interesting to know if a similar script could be found anywhere.
1) I know of the charterhouse Seitz, I don't think it has anything to do with Beinecke 408
2) Its obvious, that the letters of B. 408 are letters of the Latin script of the time, inclluding the socalled gallows, some of them just come from another Latin script, I feel quite sure the language is Latin, which would be likely with Slovenian students as well. The interesting thing is the abbreviation-system, not he language or the script.The script is everywhere in 15th c. Europe
I am most attracted to the idea that this is someone's private 'book of nature, the universe and everything'.
This someone would be considered an outsider in modern terms, possibly a university drop-out or without any formal education at all. The intention would have been to convey meaning, but this may well be lost.
The medium parchment means that this was meant to be a lasting item. Paper would have been available, but would be considered inferior.
The fact that it is profusely illustrated is much more of a mystery than most people think.
I'm very new to VM research but have been doing a lot of digging compiling resources like manuscripts and botanical sites, delving into history and even some archeology. To focus my efforts, I have accepted the radio carbon dating to 1404-1438 as most probable. Due to the limited amount of Latin and High German text in the VM, I have accepted a European, possibly Germanic, origin as likely. Additionally, I accept it as likely the original text was monochromatic and that coloring was added later, possibly by a different but contemporaneous person. This being supported by the presumed retouching of text and the presumed different hands in which the text was written. Most likely, it wasn't originally a bound book but rather loose parchments, the current binding being added much later and probably not the first binding. Whatever the original order of the parchments, they have been rearranged since and at least some parchments are missing. I find it highly unlikely this was either a hoax or a prank, medieval or contemporary, as some have suggested. It is simply too elaborate and too much has been proven about it for that to be believable.
Historically, the author would have been born and lived in very uncertain times in Europe in the Late Middle Ages. Famines and the Black Death decimated the population and there was a great need for experimental pharmacology. Labor shortages gave rise to peasant revolts and there was increased power to the guilds, increased power to the cities, the dominance of the Hanseatic League, and eventually the end of serfdom and the feudal system itself. Control of the Holy Roman Empire changed and it became fragmented with power held by the principalities. The Golden Horde was still a threat and the Ottoman Empire dominated while Central European kingdoms and territories experienced mergers and changes in control and struggled with borders and to maintain independence. There were many military battles and several wars. The Catholic Church in Europe was divided along political lines, eventually giving rise to the Protestant Reformation. The Teutonic Order reached the height of its power and then was on the decline. Paganism had mostly officially been replaced by Christianity but many pagan customs were incorporated locally, Lithuania remained pagan, and elsewhere pockets of paganism would have continued, particularly in rural areas and among smaller ethnic populations. Inquisitions were prevalent throughout Europe. Jews were persecuted and blamed in part for the Black Death. Women were persecuted for witchcraft.
My first thought when I started studying the VM was it was at least in part an alchemical text due to the seeming scientific, experimental and theoretical nature of the imagery. I still believe that but my suppositions have evolved. My current leanings are the author and original illustrator was an apothecary or a practitioner of folk medicine by trade but a scientist and an alchemist who experimented in secret and was probably more inclined towards paganism rather than Christianity. The author was probably a polymath but I doubt this is a known person and we may never know his or her identity but he or she would have been trusted and consulted locally, possibly regionally, by persons both with and without the means to pay for medicinal services. It is unlikely he or she was well-born or a member of the clergy or had a patron but evidently earned enough to afford parchment sheets purchased over time as needed. The author probably started work on the VM once successful in a trade and worked on it over many years. It is likely the person was from a family with the means to pay for at least a partial higher education, possibly at a university, as it seems the author had at least some classical training and was likely familiar with works that were commonly studied at the time as it seems at least some drawings may have been copied in part or were modified versions from other works. The person probably had access to plants only found locally and at least some of which may have since become extinct and he or she may have experimented with hybridization, both of which might explain in part why the plants are so difficult to identify with any certainty. This was probably someone who would have feared local persecution, probably death, as a heretic or worse should their secret activities and practices be discovered. If the person had been discovered, there would have been a record of any punishment received, though such a record may not have survived or hasn't been found or hasn't been connected to the VM yet. Fearing discovery, it would have been necessary to disguise the writing in the VM, hence the encryption or unidentified language. But it wouldn't have been too complicated as it would have been intended to be read by at least one other person, either a family member or an apprentice, perhaps both. I can't as yet rule out the possibility this person was of some very minor local ethnic group or their family could have migrated from somewhere else. In which case, they may have had their own language that was distinctly different from any other regionally, possibly globally, and perhaps both the language and the ethnicity are now extinct. In which case, it's possible those who knew the language could have been limited to a single family who were fluent in it.
All that said, I think the VM, like a poorer version of the notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci, was simply the author's loose scientific notes, never intended for those outside their inner circle, meaning an apprentice, possibly a son (or daughter), one who would have inherited it. I believe this apprentice was the one who added the colorization and retouched the text. Some of the pages could also have been the apprentice's own work, hence the different hand some have noted.
But then I am very new to VM research and this is a very early working theory, subject to a lot of change as I pull it apart and disprove it. Something I imagine I will be at a very, very long time.
I have 2 broad overarching ideas, neither of which is particularly original.
A summary of 1 of them.
(OG = Original of the text and drawings contained in the VMS).
Lone savant makes OG on bits of paper or whatever.
Lone savant becomes very ill.
Family of lone savant commission some scribes to draw OG all up on vellum (thus creating the VMS).
Family present VMS to lone savant as gift and/or for remembrance.
Later VMS becomes separated from family.
Later VMS gets painted and rebound.
Later marginalia and overwriting etc as additions by various owners.
The text has meaning only to the person who wrote it.
(12-08-2023, 06:39 AM)merrimacga Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.probably more inclined towards paganism rather than Christianity
I always wonder what people have in mind when they propose something like this. It would be
very uncommon for someone in the European Middle Ages to not follow one of the major religions. Tensions existed
between religions, not between religious and a-religious. Wrongdoers were those who believed in Jehovah or Allah instead of God. Or who believed in the right God but not in the right way.
Now there were people, both intellectuals and commoners, who were perhaps not participating too enthusiastically in the activities of the Church. People who just weren't that into the whole religion thing, who may have struggled with some questions of the faith even. Who may have secretly harbored thoughts that we would now call "atheism". Keeping in mind that the baseline of society would have been something we would today describe as religious extremism, those people would have been outliers, of course.
But what is this unnamed "paganism" that apparently replaces Christianity? Did this person invent their own belief system? Did they get inspiration somewhere? Were they from a culture that was already paganistic and had an established belief system? Which are its thoughts and how are they expressed? If the female figures are used metaphorically, would they really have offended church authorities? A lot was permitted under the flag of allegory.
There are very few (if any) signs of Christianity in the VM. This is remarkable with its hundreds of human figures. But there are also no farmers, fishermen, kings or queens (the crowned women cannot be literal queens since they are nude). No musicians, jesters, servants, warriors... Well, there is one archer, but he represents a month, not a person. The figures don't interact meaningfully with their environment. They may hold objects, but never use them. They hardly interact with each other, bar a few instances.
Anyway, I think the meaning of the "nymphs" is much more likely to be metaphorical rather than pagan. If the figures are allegorical, they would connect to a well-established and uninterrupted tradition that goes back to ancient times. If they represent pagan spirits they connect to... well, I don't quite know, that is my question.
edit: just to add, all the known traditions the VM likely drew on had older roots, but were not perceived as "pagan" or anti-Christian. The medicinal properties of plants were respected, and one was allowed to use plant books. Some years ago I studied the case of the Juliana Anicia Codex, an ancient herbal which was maintained, copied and used in a Christian monastery. One was allowed to study the stars, and the Aratea was a popular subject in Latin class. The Balneis tradition was as far as I know also not considered anti-Christian or pro-Pagan...
(12-08-2023, 03:22 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But there are also no farmers, fishermen, kings or queens (the crowned women cannot be literal queens since they are nude). No musicians, jesters, servants, warriors...
I wouldn't say that.
I see the page f85r2.
I see the four stands.
The nobility with the orb ( ball with cross )
The learned, the person with raised finger.
The craftsmen. I think it is a dyer with the wool threads.
The farmer with an ear of grain.
Interesting to me that the learned were drawn above the nobility.