This may seem like a "how long is a piece of string" kind of question, but I hope there is more to it than that.
If one only includes people from areas of the world that the majority of researchers think the author could have come from. I would think this would exclude China, Americas(I am excluding Nahuatl), India. In truth probably almost just Europe. Population of Europe in the year 1400 was 78 million.
Then ask what percentage of that population would have the financial means to afford to produce such a manuscript. Say 5% ? Which gives one a figure of under 4 million people.
I could see why some might think this a pointless effort, but I am curious what vague figure we could give to this question.
Personally I would be more narrow in my figures say toughly 10 million people in Northern Italy and Central Europe. Maybe 2% of people who had the financial resources to produce such a manuscript. So that gives you a figure of 200,000 people.
However I have plucked those figures out of thin air, so I would be curious what other numbers people might suggest.
There is probably no way to quantify this. I would say another not unimportant requirement is that they need some technical skills - which starts with knowing how to write, sharpen the pen correctly etc. On the other hand, the person with the technical knowledge needn't be the same as the one with the money.
This is an interesting question of narrowing down the scope of authors.
In some other thread we discussed what kind of univerity or college would such people have graduated from.
Another consideration is that Dracaena (if Dracaena it is indeed) which was only barely known in Europe at the time of writing, so the person would have to be at the cutting egde - probably at some court or in the circle of advanced merchants (or a traveller himself).
(21-10-2021, 08:57 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is probably no way to quantify this. I would say another not unimportant requirement is that they need some technical skills - which starts with knowing how to write, sharpen the pen correctly etc. On the other hand, the person with the technical knowledge needn't be the same as the one with the money.
Alright, very roughly what percentage of the population had the skills you describe and the access to capital that I have mentioned?
(21-10-2021, 08:33 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Population of Europe in the year 1400 was 78 million.
It can be assumed that about 90 percent of the population in the Middle Ages belonged to the lower class of working peasants. The rest was distributed among the clergy and nobility. The growing cities took a special position (quote: "City air makes you free".) Citizens could, depending on their profession, develop relatively freely and their share of the population grew steadily. Statistically, they are counted among the third class.
If the population in Europe in 1400 was 78 million, then the share of the clergy and nobility in Europe was about 7.8 million people. However, it may be necessary to distinguish between the author of the manuscript and the donor. It can be assumed that the VMS was quite expensive to produce and that a member of the lower clergy, for example, could not afford it. Nevertheless, he could practically be able to write the manuscript. The number of those who could finance the VMS is therefore much smaller than the number of potential authors. The assumption that it could be about 2 percent of the population I consider realistic.
(21-10-2021, 08:57 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would say another not unimportant requirement is that they need some technical skills - which starts with knowing how to write, sharpen the pen correctly etc.
If a further requirement is that he must have been acquainted with the Alsace style of art, had some disagreements with the Roman Church since he used no obvious religious signs, showed interest in building swimming pools, wrote in a language that has not yet been written, and was most likely a mystic, you can narrow down the search to Nicholas Kempf from Strasbourg, who studied and for some years taught at Vienna University, served as a prior of two Carthusian monasteries in the Slovenian speaking land, wrote over thirty books of philosophical works, poems, theological treaties (including Mystical theology), and bought a land for the monastery where the monastery build an open swimming pool for public baths.
(22-10-2021, 03:15 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If a further requirement is that he must have been acquainted with the Alsace style of art, had some disagreements with the Roman Church since he used no obvious religious signs, showed interest in building swimming pools, wrote in a language that has not yet been written, and was most likely a mystic, you can narrow down the search to Nicholas Kempf from Strasbourg, who studied and for some years taught at Vienna University, served as a prior of two Carthusian monasteries in the Slovenian speaking land, wrote over thirty books of philosophical works, poems, theological treaties (including Mystical theology), and bought a land for the monastery where the monastery build an open swimming pool for public baths.
I don't think we can say that the author(s) had some disagreements with the Roman Catholic church as there are few religious symbols. I have thought a little about this, should we expect religious symbols in a non-religious book? For example, you can be a committed Roman Catholic today and very easily write a book with no religious symbols, say if you write a cookery book or computer programming book would you include lots of crosses in it. The cross is a sign for all Christians not just Catholics.
It is not clear that the author(s) showed interest in building swimming pools, but rather had an interest in bathing in pools for health reasons.
I would suggest wrote in an unknown script for a known or unknown language or alternatively wrote in an invented cipher script.
When you say that Nicholas Kempf wrote in a language which has not been written down, what exactly do you mean?
(22-10-2021, 03:47 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When you say that Nicholas Kempf wrote in a language which has not been written down, what exactly do you mean?
For all practical purposes, Slovenian language was not written down in Latin script, except for a two 3-page documents containing a prayers. Either Glagolitic Old Church Slavonic, or Latin was used in Slovenian liturgical books. Nicholas Kempt was a proponent of vernacular languages in liturgy. In other words, Slovenian language was known, was different from Croatian and German, but was not used in Latin written form.
I did not say the author was not religious; I said he was at odds with the Catholic Church, like Jan Hus, who was burned at the stake. There are plenty of religious symbols in the VM, and plenty of religious words. I believe the main critical religious messages are expressed with pictures.
As I said, at the time VM was written, the Carthusian monks had built an open swimming pool with a thermal water for public baths and healing. The hot spring is still there and the hotel is still a health resort.
Religious aspects of the VMs have been long considered. The VMs illustrations do not appear to represent religious topics. However religious elements are *not* absent from the VMs. The extent of religious interpretation in the VMs is a matter of perception because there are certain elements that are more subtle and potentially disguised.
An example can be found in VMs White Aries. In the illustration, the artist posses a question. Does the reader know the heraldic origin of the Catholic tradition of the cardinal's use of a red galero? This is the Genoese Gambit. This is the VMs nymph in the inner circle of White Aries, with a red hat and sitting in a blue-striped tub. A whole cascade of interpretations follow on from this historical recognition (the Fieschi popes). Disguise is clearly intentional.
The VMs artist or artists had a level of sophistication sufficient for mnemonics and heraldic canting, and an imagination for fantastic plants, cosmic combinations and hidden historical references. [Hidden, as in obfuscated and made ambiguous - easier to see when they are known, much more difficult otherwise.]
(22-10-2021, 06:39 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For all practical purposes, Slovenian language was not written down in Latin script, except for a two 3-page documents containing a prayers. Either Glagolitic Old Church Slavonic, or Latin was used in Slovenian liturgical books. Nicholas Kempt was a proponent of vernacular languages in liturgy. In other words, Slovenian language was known, was different from Croatian and German, but was not used in Latin written form.
So are you saying that you think the Voynich manuscript was written in Slovenian?
(22-10-2021, 06:39 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are plenty of religious symbols in the VM...
You said "he used no obvious religious signs"
This seems like a contradiction.