The Voynich Ninja

I suggest to put here any ideas about Biblical mythological explanation of the rosettes: separate rosettes or the whole scheme. I have only my phone today, so only a prologue for now.

To be sequential and to gather all the information in one place for convenience, I need to copy my post from another thread. Unfortunately, I already can't edit those ones, but the moderators can shorten the wholly copied previous post if so will be better.

I'll begin with the image of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which may mean "sky (heaven) - earth - water (ocean)" or "heavens - earth - underworld" in the mythological conception.
The first division is formed according to the Genesis 1:26:
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

I'll work here with the corner rosettes, as on my observations, exactly they are connected to the mythological side of the information.
Concerning You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I consider such possibilities:
1. The physical world. I only have doubts as for the sky. It seems in this conception must by the sky / heaven meaning atmosphere, air, but looking on the two copies of the Vox Clamantis (circa 1400), I think it is a possible variation. 
With air (Glasgow Univ. Lib., MS Hunter 59 (T.2.17) folio 6v):

With starry night sky (source is Hunting Library HM150 folio: f. 13v (aka Ecton-Sotheby manuscript, Macaulay E-text):

Koen's edited image of the right top rosette:

2. The part of the Biblical creation myth.
Genesis 1:6-7
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.
Also:
Job 9:8
He alone stretches out the heavens _ and treads on the waves of the sea.
Or Job 26:7-12
7 He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.8 He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight.9 He covers the face of the full moon, spreading his clouds over it.10 He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.11 The pillars of the heavens quake, aghast at his rebuke.12 By his power he churned up the sea; by his wisdom he cut Rahab to pieces.
The spiral shaped text reminds me of the circular motion of the stars around the north pole (the God's Kingdom), therefore I think of this rosette not only as about the Creature, but also as the North. 
3. The Flood myth with the castle-like ark. 
I'm really not ready to prefer any of these suppositions. All of them seems to be possible, but, of course, it needs a separate thread for interpretations of every rosette.

The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. represents something that reminds a curtain (a tent) as we all noted. I think it, along with the sun depicted in the right bottom corner, can reflect such quotes:
Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Psalms 19:1-6
1  The heavens declare the glory of God,and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
 2  Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
 3  There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
 4  Their voice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
 5  which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
 6  Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

The tabernacle (sanctuary) is a parallel or a copy of the heavenly curtain (or the tabernacle):
Hebrews 8:5 ESV
They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.”
Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
So, I wonder if it can depict the eartly tabernacle, or heavenly one, or either. I'll consider later whether this rosette stands for East or West, and which problems are with those interpretations.

Dropping the left bottom rosette for now, I want to make some notes about the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Look at the Miniature of King Cnut and Queen Emma in the New Minster Liber Vitae: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

 I'd pay attention that the part of the "curtain" of the right bottom rosette contains a pattern dividing the square into four parts. Possibly it is just a decoration, but what if there is a connection between these two diagonal rosettes, besides of that that these corner contain the pictures of the Sun. I think this diagonal represents the way of the Sun and, at the same time, can be the way of Christ (his transfiguration).

To be continued...

Something I would like to clear out first is the assignment of directions to the four corners. There seems to be some agreement that the cardinal directions are on the diagonals, but two (or more?) interpretations with 180° difference. Since it might be better to consider this in general (not necessarily within a biblical framework) I will make a separate thread.

For the spiral sky, there is actually a better parallel in art and the bible. I do not know how to fit this into the page as a whole since it is from the book of Revelation. I will quote some more of Revelation 6 for context:

Quote:12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us f from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their g wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Now the heavens being rolled up like a scroll may not sound like a spiral, but it was sometimes depicted as such. 

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St Cyril church, Kiev, 12th century; Chora Church, 14th century.

My memory may be deceiving me, but I seem to recall there was an even better example somewhere, however I am unable to find it so maybe it was one of those. There is also one in the Scrovegni chapel, but this is less spiraly You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(28-06-2021, 08:03 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I do not know how to fit this into the page as a whole since it is from the book of Revelation.

Your examples of the heavens and stars illustrated as a spiraling scroll do seem like they may be relevant. At first, a reference to Revelation seems out of place on this page as a whole, especially when we've focused on a birth of Ecclesia narrative and connections to Pentecost. But this particular passage with the heavens receding like a scroll is about the opening of the sixth seal, which may actually be associated with this. These events described in Revelation 6 - the darkness of the sun, the moon turning red like blood - are referenced also in Acts 2 as a prophecy that's related to the beginning of Pentecost. In Acts 2 when tongues of fire and the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles, Peter says that this was part of a prophecy:

Quote:17 "'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; 18 even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy. 19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; 20 the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day. 21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'

So the imagery in the top right rosette might fit with those descriptions, either from Revelation 6, or as a reference of those events as a future prophecy like this. Without more biblical background, this is all I could tell for now, but there seems to be a connection here. I wonder if this would fit into this page as a whole with these themes, relating to these pivotal events. 

Since Searcher mentioned the bottom right rosette again and its tent/curtain, and the question of how the two diagonal rosettes (top left and bottom right) might connect, I wanted to mention something else. 
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(28-06-2021, 04:33 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] I'd pay attention that the part of the "curtain" of the right bottom rosette contains a pattern dividing the square into four parts. Possibly it is just a decoration, but what if there is a connection between these two diagonal rosettes, besides of that that these corner contain the pictures of the Sun. I think this diagonal represents the way of the Sun and, at the same time, can be the way of Christ (his transfiguration).[/font]
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I saw the four-part division of that square as indicating an architectural detail, like the top or underside view of a pointed, four-sided roof, but I agree that there are important connections along the diagonal directions of this folio as a whole. As Koen wrote in the blog post, our interpretation of the top left rosette as the Side Wound and the bottom right rosette as the ripping of the Temple Veil, a symbol of the Old Covenant, puts these two rosettes in an opposing diagonal position: Ecclesia opposing Synagoga. What I don't think we mentioned, but is very much related, is that the tearing fabric was also likened to a wound, so the two simultaneous events were connected in multiple ways in addition to the light/darkness connections with the Sun.

For Koen and Cary: 
To the point, one of JKP's interpretations of f86v3 in his You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:

(30-06-2021, 02:23 AM)CaryR Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These events described in Revelation 6 - the darkness of the sun, the moon turning red like blood - are referenced also in Acts 2 as a prophecy that's related to the beginning of Pentecost. In Acts 2 when tongues of fire and the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles, Peter says that this was part of a prophecy:

Interesting. So assuming the maker of this image was familiar with the Bible (which seems reasonable ) they would have known that the Bible's description of Pentecost included these visions of the Apocalypse. Works for me.

Another example of the spiral-heavens is in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., though it is much less striking visually. Here we get two spirals with flower-stars, flower-sun and moon.

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Another possible reference to Revelation 6 is the fact that the boundaries between heaven, water and land are blurred (stars fell to the earth, islands were moved...). There are literally stars at the gates of the castle, seat of the "kings of the earth". No wonder I could only produce an ugly image marking the three zones.

I have a somewhat different conception of the rosettes page in that I believe it is primarily based on natural philosophy but layered with religious imagery (or vice versa).  To me, the outer circles are details - or spheres - of the inner middle circle, the cosmos.  The top row is celestial, the bottom row underworld, and the left and right second row is terrestrial.

The conception of Hades is key here to the bottom row for me.  The Greeks perceived plants and minerals as well as the land of the dead as being part of the underworld.  So at least on one level, you could read the bottom from left to right as Hades or death/judgment, vegetabilis, mineralis.

So the bottom right corner to me is mineralis first, consisting of a literal field of gold, the 4 elements, pillars of the earth/mine shafts.  These "hidden" stones and minerals reach the surface through shafts but also through water.

But in terms of the Church, Ecclesia, etc., this might also be another iteration of that one page of "religious evolution" I pointed out on Koen's blog.  We have pillars of the earth, which is biblical, but I also like that 4 part elemental structure as a tent, or Solomon's Temple - in other words, there is a lot here that might suggest the word "foundation".  My interpretation works alchemically, of course, but also religiously I think, if one can pull out the strands.

(11-07-2021, 05:22 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a somewhat different conception of the rosettes page in that I believe it is primarily based on natural philosophy but layered with religious imagery (or vice versa).  To me, the outer circles are details - or spheres - of the inner middle circle, the cosmos.  The top row is celestial, the bottom row underworld, and the left and right second row is terrestrial.

I can't make a long detailed answer now, so I just will express my short thought concerning this issue. 
I have thought recently the Rosettes diagram could be divided into left and right. The left side - death, darkness; the right side - life, light. This division was accepted in some cultures, the same as "left - evil, feminine, wet" and "right - good, masculine, hot". Also I suppose that the top right and bottom right rosettes are emitters, but the opposite corner rosettes are receptors. The first ones direct their erupting "volcanoes" to the opposite rosettes-receptors: the bottom left one is attended by some opening with a pipe-like outlet, the upper left one - by four pipes. And yes, it is not obvious, but there must be the reason why the right corner rosettes are equipped with "volcanoes", but the left ones have pipe-like objects. I think this detail makes those pairs resemble.

Quote:The conception of Hades is key here to the bottom row for me.

My personal thought was not exactly Hades, but Abyss conception. I wrote about this in my You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. (If you are interested)

Hi Searcher, thanks, I read your blog with interest.  For me, I'm not overly concerned with the directions of the rosette because I don't really consider the page a physical map, but a conceptual one.  It would be nice to figure out the directions, of course, as helpful for interpretation, but I don't consider them crucial.  As for the abyss, yes of course it could be that!  Good catch.  I'm attached to the idea it represents some form of underworld, a place of judgment, and more importantly separation, dissolution, death, but the exact underworld it represents is likely not too important.  Medieval peoples considered hell an actual topographical fiery place.

If you look at the centre sphere, the cosmos, and the starry lake the temples surround: many illustrations of the time have the city of Jerusalem directly atop an abyss into Sheol or Hell.  So while the lake reflects the celestial, and is encircled by a nimbus denoting draconis/corpus mundi, if you plunged into it, it would lead you straight to hell or the underworld.  My interpretation - for now!

These are my main associations with the left top rosette :
F67r, VMs. 
Diagram of a lunar eclipse, from a manuscript of Johannes de Sacrobosco’s Computus, Quadrans, De sphaera, Algorismus, Cautelae, France, ca. 1260. In the collection of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Douce Apocalypse Bodleian MS 180. 
Madonna della Misericordia di S. M. Arzilla, Pesaro xv c.