03-08-2020, 01:01 PM
03-08-2020, 04:29 PM
(03-08-2020, 10:29 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But, from his comment You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I understand he thinks the VMS is probably a hoax.
Richard Sproat Wrote:The problem with injunctions such as Bakker's (or Victor's) that it is not worth trying to decipher something because it is probably a hoax, or there isn't enough text for Shannon unicity, or whatever, is that such appeals universally fail to have any stopping power on the enthusiast. And why should they? If the existence of dozens or hundreds of equally plausible previous "decipherments" of a corpus fail to dissuade them, why should other considerations?
I don't read support for the hoax hyopthesis into Richard Sproat's blog comment that you linked, Marco. He appears to be referring to other people who support the hoax hypothesis, specifically people who recommend no further attempts at decipherment given the plausibility of the hoax hypothesis. The comment is neutral on Prof Sproat's personal opinion on the nature of the VMs. I'm guessing this is deliberate; just from a look at his webpage and CV, I think I can say with confidence that Prof Sproat places a high value on precise language, and chooses his words carefully.
I'm sure Richard Sproat does have an opinion on what the VMs is, whether or not it contains meaningful linguistic content, and if so, what it would take to decipher it. He may, however, be one of the many qualified people who don't care to get into this fray.
03-08-2020, 05:55 PM
Hi RH,
in his opinion, the problem with the statement that the ms is likely a hoax is not that it is ungrounded. The problem with that statement is that it does not stop the enthusiasts.
Anyway, if you are right (and I hope you are) it is possible that one day Sproat will write more extensively about the subject. If my interpretation is correct, he agrees with Bakker in seeing Voynich research as a waste of time.
in his opinion, the problem with the statement that the ms is likely a hoax is not that it is ungrounded. The problem with that statement is that it does not stop the enthusiasts.
Anyway, if you are right (and I hope you are) it is possible that one day Sproat will write more extensively about the subject. If my interpretation is correct, he agrees with Bakker in seeing Voynich research as a waste of time.
03-08-2020, 08:50 PM
In other words: The translation failure rate so far is 100%.
"NEXT!"
That applies more to the linguistic side than to the investigation of certain VMs illustrations. The interpretation of these illustrations can be verified according to relevant tradition. There appears to be potential progress in several areas. Rediscovering relevant tradition provides the proper interpretation to understand the function of the illustration. Illustrations can be used to designate particular segments of text.
Does the VMs have a built-in back door? There is internal structure sufficient to the task.
"NEXT!"
That applies more to the linguistic side than to the investigation of certain VMs illustrations. The interpretation of these illustrations can be verified according to relevant tradition. There appears to be potential progress in several areas. Rediscovering relevant tradition provides the proper interpretation to understand the function of the illustration. Illustrations can be used to designate particular segments of text.
Does the VMs have a built-in back door? There is internal structure sufficient to the task.
03-08-2020, 10:09 PM
03-08-2020, 10:14 PM
With the power and resources from this hypothetical scenario, a number of tasks could be solved effectively, I believe.
For example, find a few dozen people who know their way around French manuscripts (and adjacent languages) and have them scour those for month names. Gather everything in a central database. Pinpoint location & time.
Have people scour archives for correspondence by/to relevant figures from the Prague era. (I think anything after Prague won't solve the MS itself, because by the time it went from Baresch to Kircher, its origin and meaning was forgotten).
For example, find a few dozen people who know their way around French manuscripts (and adjacent languages) and have them scour those for month names. Gather everything in a central database. Pinpoint location & time.
Have people scour archives for correspondence by/to relevant figures from the Prague era. (I think anything after Prague won't solve the MS itself, because by the time it went from Baresch to Kircher, its origin and meaning was forgotten).
03-08-2020, 10:24 PM
(03-08-2020, 10:14 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
With the power and resources from this hypothetical scenario, a number of tasks could be solved effectively, I believe.
For example, find a few dozen people who know their way around French manuscripts (and adjacent languages) and have them scour those for month names. Gather everything in a central database. Pinpoint location & time.
You're taking all the fun out of it. I've spent years scouring manuscripts for month names and I have found the ones that correspond to the month labels in the VMS. I just haven't had time to write it up yet.
04-08-2020, 12:43 AM
I think I see where you are going with this, Koen...
How can we coordinate our efforts to make them more effective? Who can we enlist to fill in the gaps? Which aspects could be done better or with better expertise?
I think this is a good way to think about it.
But to do that effectively, we need to know what people have actually done so far and not everyone (including me) is able to share their discoveries right away (I have years of research to write up) and I'm guessing there are some who don't want to reveal what they have discovered until they can confirm it (can I make a guess that René, as one example, is probably working on research threads that take time to confirm?).
Where we really need help is in the codicology. The radiocarbon dating was immensely helpful not only in legitimizing the VMS but in helping us narrow our search window. I wonder if there are more things similar to that that throw out a broad net that helps us narrow our focus so our searches are more effective.
How can we coordinate our efforts to make them more effective? Who can we enlist to fill in the gaps? Which aspects could be done better or with better expertise?
I think this is a good way to think about it.
But to do that effectively, we need to know what people have actually done so far and not everyone (including me) is able to share their discoveries right away (I have years of research to write up) and I'm guessing there are some who don't want to reveal what they have discovered until they can confirm it (can I make a guess that René, as one example, is probably working on research threads that take time to confirm?).
Where we really need help is in the codicology. The radiocarbon dating was immensely helpful not only in legitimizing the VMS but in helping us narrow our search window. I wonder if there are more things similar to that that throw out a broad net that helps us narrow our focus so our searches are more effective.
04-08-2020, 04:03 AM
Offer a big reward to find the missing folios that contain the key! 
Other than that, physical evidence, such as mass spectroscopic analysis of trace metal content to help locate region.
Other than that, physical evidence, such as mass spectroscopic analysis of trace metal content to help locate region.
07-08-2020, 01:07 PM
If the astronomy in the manuscript shows the fast approaching inevitable lead up to the begining of the end of the world, how does solving its text save the world, even if the president ordered it so? Its all about the sign, that's it, nothing else. This lead up is to be preceeded by the complete destruction of human society in all aspects and a move into transhumanism (with or without the aid of beings claiming to be aliens - NB aliens not required), which a year ago I would never have believed was actually possible in the 10 year timeframe. Its there but seemed impossible, I didnt understand it could actually occur.
As they say "don't look down", whatever is going on around you keep your eyes on the sky, expect increasing reporting of many minor events of things falling from the sky first. Look for the sign, the Tawny horse of the VM is the culminating ELE.
I have been bleating on about the astronomy for years, and while no one else may share this viewpoint, its time to speak up.
As they say "don't look down", whatever is going on around you keep your eyes on the sky, expect increasing reporting of many minor events of things falling from the sky first. Look for the sign, the Tawny horse of the VM is the culminating ELE.
I have been bleating on about the astronomy for years, and while no one else may share this viewpoint, its time to speak up.