The Voynich Ninja

(12-06-2020, 11:54 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I think it's two separate vords, do and otolodal

That brings up another problem with VMS text. If that is two vords, then a half-space counts as a space. That means about 5,000 half-spaces are omitted from transcripts.

It depends how consistently we want to read the spaces in the text.

Here's another brain-tickler...

[attachment=4451]

Is this several vords beginning with EVA-s that are broken across the stalk (saiin, sok, sdy)?

Or is EVA-s a single vord (it does occur quite frequently as a one-glyph vord) with the vords between the stems being separate from EVA-s?

For a long time I propose to blot (dot filled with “o”) as an independent glyph.
Arguments ..
1 / examples 55a and 55b are taken into account in codes v101
2 / most of the blots (dots) have a height less than e, o - eva.
3 / why is eva-e in the left foot of the bench 10 times more likely to turn into a blot than in the right foot? After all, this is one and the same movement of the pen. I think this is due to the different frequency of combinations of sounds in the language.
4 / was the scribe really so sloppy that in example 61 he immediately put 3 blots?
5 / in examples 53, 56, 57 it is clearly seen that the clerk does not try to write a point in the base of the string (as is done when writing e, o-eva), but binds it above to “c” -eva. It looks like a mirror for example 55a.
[attachment=4452]

(12-06-2020, 08:30 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Transliteration?



f24r

The folio looks a bit blobby in general look at "odaiin" a few lines below.

Bunny

Wladimir, I was wondering also if it was an independent glyph. But if it is, it is rare.

In the examples that you posted, the EVA-e and EVA-2 look to me like they might be pen-fill (unintentional blobs) but I am not sure about 114r. It looks like it might be deliberate. 78v I am not sure. It might be a blob.

What is interesting about  the filled-o on f114r and, the one f24r , is that if it were originally "o" (before it was filled), there would be two "o" characters in a row and, in general, the "oo" combination is less common (only once every few pages) and it is usually after a single character in a vord. But in the filled examples on 114r and 24r it "breaks" that pattern (there's more than one char before it).

(13-06-2020, 12:29 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That brings up another problem with VMS text. If that is two vords, then a half-space counts as a space. That means about 5,000 half-spaces are omitted from transcripts.

It depends how consistently we want to read the spaces in the text.

Yes, in fact it's a big problem and it manifests itself when you are beginning to work with vord counts. For example, when on one and the same page there are cheol, dy, and cheoldy, there is the question about the latter. Was the space neglected to pack the text densely? Or is it a vord in itself?

JKP et al.,

you make the fundamental  mistake of misinterpreting the variations of an individual script as additional
glyphs or even additional scribes.

I've spent almost every day since 2008 looking at manuscripts, reading manuscripts, to try to figure out which kinds of variations are natural and which kinds of variations might be deliberate. I have a huge database of examples.

I don't know if the filled dots, in some instances, represent blobs (filled-in ink), different characters, or possibly a deliberately blotted (removed) character, but when the difference is also reflected in the order of the glyphs, when it occurs in a token with an anomalous glyph-pattern, then there is a possibility that some of them might be.


As for different scribes... folio 26 and 31 are definitely a different scribe. I have enough experience with scripts to see that and I have no doubt about it. It's not the same scribe on a different day, it's a different scribe. I do not know how many other scribes contributed to the VMS because I haven't had a chance to study the handwriting of the other sections in depth, but if I ever get a chance, it might turn out that my impression agrees with that of Lisa Fagin Davis. I simply can't say yet but will probably have a chance within the next three months or so to look at it in more detail.

(12-06-2020, 08:30 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Transliteration?



f24r

Suggest:

word is o/e/ee/o/s

You can substitute r for s with no issue.  The final o is o not a, a does not work.

Bunny - Done by ear

(12-06-2020, 10:45 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here is another one, same folio:



It's not shaped like "o".

Much more interesting word.  The O from do can be removed or substituted with a with no loss.  The 2 Os can be kept or 1 removed with no disruption.  All permutations work.

The 2nd word to the right doii? has unclear ending, final n or r work, s does not.

Bunny