The Voynich Ninja

Full Version: Q10 as the Elements
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3
I've come with an intriguing idea. No sure if I'm the first one with it, because it now looks to me self-evident to propose this view. Anyway.

I'm leaving out the two Zodiac diagrams, of course, they are evidently part of the Zodiac cycle which continues further in the VMS.

What I'm speaking of are four circular diagrams arranged in sequence starting from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and ending on f70r2.

Notably, all of them are situated on a single bifolio. I mean that a single large bifolio was taken to draw these diagrams (and when space was left in the end, it was just used to hold two Zodiac diagrams). This loosely suggests that the four diagrams may be part of the same topic or even a set of homogenous ("equal rank") subtopics. (It's an interesting question whether the same can be said about Q9, but it's off-topic here).

The whole set is depicted by Rene here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (you can refer to that for pictures as well)

So, four supposedly "homogenous" diagrams, if considered from the astrological viewpoint, immediately suggest the four Elements.

If so, which is which? The one in f70r1 looks like Water, because the whole stuff looks like water indeed. The next (and the last) one, f70r2, has the unambigous Sun in the centre. The fact that the Voynich author(s) took no trouble to disguise the Sun in their drawings does them a really bad service. Sun governs Fire, as it's widely known. The pattern surrounding the Sun in f70r2 does not self-evidently look like fire. Maybe without the blue paint it may have passed for fire, but the blue paint is really out of place here. But let's suppose there was no other paint at hand. If this is one of the Elements, it just has to be Fire, because of the Sun.

What we deduce next is that if the Ruler of Fire (the Sun) is depicted in the centre of Fire, then what is depicted in the centres of other Elements must be their respective Rulers. I referred to this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for information about Rulers. The matter is complicated by that there are three sets of Rulers: Day Rulers, Night Rulers and Participating Rulers. So, each Element has three Rulers, one for day, another for night, and yet another to participate I don't know in what. If even participating Rulers are not used in all systems (as Wikipedia reports), then each Element has two Rulers still. Interestingly, the Sun occurs only once in the table of 12 Rulers - that is, as the Day Ruler for Fire. This additionally strengthens the grounds for f70r2 to be Fire, since no other Element is ever ruled by the Sun. This, further, means that the Rulers in these diagrams are Day Rulers specifically, because the Sun is never a Night or Participating Ruler. So we can limit the search space to Day Rulers.

Moving back to the supposed Water in f70r1, we find from the Wikipedia table that the Day Ruler of Water is Venus. Hence, the six-pointed star has to be Venus. But the six-pointed star is also depicted in the centre of f69r, which means that Venus must be the Day Ruler for two Elements at once. And indeed it is!! According to the table, Venus also is the Day Ruler for Earth. I leave it out of consideration for now what may be the connection of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. pattern to Earth, and what those tubes (?) might be (in fact, I have no ready ideas). It's worth mentioning that the supposed Venus in Earth has three stripes in each of its rays while the supposed Venus in Water has not. In other respects, the two are similar.

The one Element left is f69v, the diagram which I personally describe as the "Voynich pipes". By way of exclusion, it has to be Air. This is not bad, I vaguely remember that in the "Voynich Pipes" thread or elsewhere somebody suggested those pipes to represent winds. This is, I think, not impossible, because a pipe is something that can be blown in, and thus it has some association or allegory to the wind. And, according to the table of the Rulers, the Day Ruler of Wind is Saturn. So the eight-pointed star has to be Saturn.

Now, if all this holds true, this brings out unprecedented opportunities for further contextual analysis.

The graphical patterns of the Elements to be found and their context to be analysed elsewhere in the VMS.

Same thing for six- and eight-pointed stars (large ones, of course, and not those in Q20 or held by the nymphs). f67r2 and f68v2 immediately come to mind.

Non-six-or-eight-pointed stars (if any out there, potentially f67v2) to be identified as celestial bodies by way of exclusion.

Astrological notions associated with Elements, such as Zodiacal constellations/triplicities, seasons, conditions etc. to be searched for in diagrams and texts of Q10.
Oh, actually, upon a thorough count, f68v2 is seven-pointed, not eight-pointed. I was misguided by the description on Rene's website. Rene, you may wish to correct that: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-05-2020, 05:09 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.large ones, of course, and not those in Q20 or held by the nymphs

Hmm, alhough why "of course"?! Small stars may well stand for "governing" or associated celestial bodies for the things they are attached to.
(09-05-2020, 05:22 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Oh, actually, upon a thorough count, f68v2 is seven-pointed, not eight-pointed. I was misguided by the description on Rene's website. Rene, you may wish to correct that:

Anton, the number eight refers to the blue 'star' on f68v2, and the outer segments. It is true that the yellow heart has only seven arms. Thanks for pointing that out!
Ah, OK, I see. I was focused on the celestial body Smile
Intriguing. Yes, given the premise that these represent the 4 elements, I made the same assignments, Earth, Air, Water, Fire - this before reading your discussion of the Rulers.
In f67r1 there are a few 7 pointed stars, one at 6 o'clock, 2 at 7 o'clock and 1 at 8 o'clock, all the other larger stars are 6 pointed.
Earth signs etc? Does not compute. But the big stars could be planets. (Yes I know, wrong thread , but here we are).

In f67v2 the central 6 pointed star (Earth, Water) fits as this being a representation of tides.

In 67r2 the central 8 pointed star (Air)...has a similar tide - like representation but... why air in this context?
(10-05-2020, 08:45 PM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In f67r1 there are a few 7 pointed stars, one at 6 o'clock, 2 at 7 o'clock and 1 at 8 o'clock, all the other larger stars are 6 pointed.
Earth signs etc? Does not compute. But the big stars could be planets.

If these relatively "big" stars in f67r1 represent planets, then it is not clear why two stars with equal number of rays would be present in the same sector (like at 7 o'clock which is my supposed Aquarius). In fact, I made a ray count for several folios in the beginning of Q20, and 7- and 8-pointed stars are overwhelmingly predominant (although there was one detail hinting that the number of rays may be of importance).

But at this point it does not look very probable that "medium-sized" stars of this kind represent planets.

(10-05-2020, 08:45 PM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In f67v2 the central 6 pointed star (Earth, Water) fits as this being a representation of tides.

I always had the impression it's seven pointed. I can see how you can see it six-pointed, but I think it's 7-pointed after all. 6-pointed would be Venus (if my logic above holds true), 7-pointed is still undefined. Tides? That's an interesting idea. Can you please describe your interpretation of that chart (maybe in a separate thread)? Was the scientific explanation of tides already known in XV century?

I don't think Earth would be represented as a star, it's more than once the T-O map, including that in the "Elements" chart.

(10-05-2020, 08:45 PM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In 67r2 the central 8 pointed star (Air)...has a similar tide - like representation but... why air in this context?

If what I suggest for 8-pointed (Saturn) is true, then Air is fine, because Saturn is the Day ruler of Air. Indeed, the "cloud-like" background of the star looks like representation of air. I don't see anything related to tides here. The 12 pieces look like moons (I personally call this diagram the "Voynich moons", and I think we have a separate thread for it). I'm totally at a loss though what would be the connection of twelve moons (or months) with Saturn. Saturn takes some 30 years to return, so that's not about Saturn's cycle.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is another occurrence, we have a six-pointed star for the 1st paragraph, a seven-pointed for the 2nd, and an eight-pointed for the 3rd. Looks like description of planets or their properties in succession. One would expect continuation of that desciption on the verso side, and at least one planet shuld follow (even suppose Earth, Sun and Moon are excluded), and one star follows indeed, but it's six-pointed again, and that's confusing. Maybe, an illustrator's mistake? But this is a medium-sized star with a tail, much like those in Q20. But, on the other hand, the total number of paragraphs in recto and verso is seven, as is the number of planets.
I've just found a book that may be useful in this context, "The History of Western Astrology" by Tesler, unfortunately not a free read, but some pages are available at Google books.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Let's see if it brings anything...
OK, I already found something of great importance, on pp.166-167 various orders of planets are discussed, and, supposed that in our case the order corresponds to the number of rays, the only order that places Venus and Saturn two positions apart is the order of Fardarat as described by Albumaser, and, as Tesler notes, it is the order of planets' exaltations.

Which is this: Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Mercury, Saturn, Mars, Venus.

This would mean that the 7-pointed star is Mars.

This also might be the sequence of paragraphs in folio 58 in reverse order (Venus to Sun).
Pages: 1 2 3