12-07-2020, 04:10 PM
We are shifting here from constellations to individual stars. Yet what appears in the figure as small stars are not individual stars but groups of them, or just filler as Koen suggests.
12-07-2020, 04:10 PM
12-07-2020, 05:52 PM
Unfortunately, in medieval manuscripts, the number of stars in a specific constellation varies quite wildly. And they also had a system of symbolic dots or stars to represent specific constellations that had very little to do with how many stars there were.
12-07-2020, 07:05 PM
I would argue that the individual stars and the associated constellations are rather inseparable, certainly when it comes to finding them but also in terms of the associated lore.
Talk about mnemonics, amateur astronomy is a prime example of the art even today. Indeed the lists above are a mixture of both.
I wondered for a while why something as obscure as Baten Kaitos ("Venter Ceti", the stomach of the whale) was on the list.
Apparently in combination with other nearby stars in the region one can find the direction of North. Perhaps the story of Jonah makes this easy for sailors to remember!
Talk about mnemonics, amateur astronomy is a prime example of the art even today. Indeed the lists above are a mixture of both.
I wondered for a while why something as obscure as Baten Kaitos ("Venter Ceti", the stomach of the whale) was on the list.
Apparently in combination with other nearby stars in the region one can find the direction of North. Perhaps the story of Jonah makes this easy for sailors to remember!
12-07-2020, 10:30 PM
They might be inseparable, but what we observe in the star rays are not individual stars, but groups of asterisks. However, there are individual stars in the "outer space" in the same sectors. What's suspicious are those lines at 6 o'clock which, if not simply grease, are drawn as if to highlight: hey, these two stars belong to this group of stars!
This may serve as a mnemonic the other way round: to show that one needs to consider twelve constellations (or, more generally, twelve homogenous sets) arranged in a certain order, and to pick one or two stars (or, more generally, objects) from these sets. This would explain why these lines are shown only at six o'clock and not in other sectors.
In fact, all my considerations about constellations were stimulated by the supposed sign of Libra at 11 o'clock. However, even without that, twelve sectors in combination with Sun and Moon strongly suggest the Zodiac. What other options are there for the number twelve? Obviously, twelve months and twelve hours.
But this is not simply twelve, it looks rather something mixed in one diagram. Why there are both Sun and Moon? The Sun is dividing the circumference in twelve sectors with its rays. Then each sector has two subsectors, one of which contains those groups of asterisks within and larger individual stars in the outer space, while the other is simply painted blue within and contains a vord or two in the outside.
Why it's required to paint the whole half-sector with the blue paint? And what's the division of responsibility between the Sun and the Moon in this figure?
There was some special need for this half-sector division. Looks like small and larger stars are one "part of the story", while the blue paint and Voynichese are the other part. There is some generalization behind the blue, and there are twelve objects in this set of "blue", designated by vords.
This may serve as a mnemonic the other way round: to show that one needs to consider twelve constellations (or, more generally, twelve homogenous sets) arranged in a certain order, and to pick one or two stars (or, more generally, objects) from these sets. This would explain why these lines are shown only at six o'clock and not in other sectors.
In fact, all my considerations about constellations were stimulated by the supposed sign of Libra at 11 o'clock. However, even without that, twelve sectors in combination with Sun and Moon strongly suggest the Zodiac. What other options are there for the number twelve? Obviously, twelve months and twelve hours.
But this is not simply twelve, it looks rather something mixed in one diagram. Why there are both Sun and Moon? The Sun is dividing the circumference in twelve sectors with its rays. Then each sector has two subsectors, one of which contains those groups of asterisks within and larger individual stars in the outer space, while the other is simply painted blue within and contains a vord or two in the outside.
Why it's required to paint the whole half-sector with the blue paint? And what's the division of responsibility between the Sun and the Moon in this figure?
There was some special need for this half-sector division. Looks like small and larger stars are one "part of the story", while the blue paint and Voynichese are the other part. There is some generalization behind the blue, and there are twelve objects in this set of "blue", designated by vords.
13-07-2020, 03:08 AM
Semi-offtopic: why take the extra time and effort to create a notch in the inner connection for each of the spokes?
13-07-2020, 03:37 AM
One interpretation I was working on was day/night (sun/moon) (red/blue) = sunrise/sunset with the two larger stars in each segment possibly representing Venus as morning star or evening star.
This does not work though as Venus disappears behind the sun for months at a time. You could possibly maybe bring in Mercury as the 7 pointed stars that occur a couple of times at around the 7 o'clock position (Mercury indeed is only visible briefly when farthest from the sun).
So just as the number of stars seems to put Cancer and the Zodiac out of the question, so the Venus interpretation is also difficult.
This does not work though as Venus disappears behind the sun for months at a time. You could possibly maybe bring in Mercury as the 7 pointed stars that occur a couple of times at around the 7 o'clock position (Mercury indeed is only visible briefly when farthest from the sun).
So just as the number of stars seems to put Cancer and the Zodiac out of the question, so the Venus interpretation is also difficult.
13-07-2020, 02:01 PM
(13-07-2020, 03:08 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Semi-offtopic: why take the extra time and effort to create a notch in the inner connection for each of the spokes?
Don't know if they matter. Sometimes it's with notches, sometimes without. f68v2 is especially remarkable in respect of these notches and what accompanies them.
(13-07-2020, 03:37 AM)DONJCH Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So just as the number of stars seems to put Cancer and the Zodiac out of the question, so the Venus interpretation is also difficult.
The number may be insignificant after all. I'm comfortable with the Koen's suggestion of the filler coupled with my idea that 6 o'clock is simply a visual hint "large stars belong to these sets".
13-07-2020, 06:56 PM
Found an image on this post, cannot find the name for it, but they say it is in the British museum.
Notice the arms are similar in color and shape to the Voynich ones.
![[Image: c11686-01.jpg]](https://nplusonemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/c11686-01.jpg)
Here is the main site. hopefully the picture will work. I'm terrible at adding these
Notice the arms are similar in color and shape to the Voynich ones.
Here is the main site. hopefully the picture will work. I'm terrible at adding these
13-07-2020, 11:44 PM
13-07-2020, 11:55 PM
Interesting that it features directions to various towns, as far as I understand.
I say, supposing the guy would not disclose month names and zodiac names in Voynichese labels (which would make it too easy to decipher), and that specifying one reference point (such as the supposed Libra sign) effectively sets them all, - what other information would be hid in labels?
I say, supposing the guy would not disclose month names and zodiac names in Voynichese labels (which would make it too easy to decipher), and that specifying one reference point (such as the supposed Libra sign) effectively sets them all, - what other information would be hid in labels?